Let's suppose Calvinism is true...then why don't all Christians believe it?

If you don't know, are you saying that there could be a point when God did not know?

 

And why does man have a sin nature? Because you believe God cursed man. So who's fault is it that man cannot respond to the gospel? God's by your reasoning, although you will deny it. But many Calvinists have been honest enough to admit this is what they truly do believe.

As least this Calvinist is honest enough to admit what are the logical conclusions of your doctrine.

 

It is a biblical fact that each and every person lies under the curse of sin. Do you disagree with this?

People are at fault because they have an inability to respond to the Gospel.Their sin prevents them -- pervasive corruption. Don't you dare lay that at God's doorstep.

 

:thumbsup: Lost for words.

..aaaw Yes. Creation has a beginning. See Gen 1

humm. Well God is not.

Psa 147:5....Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.
Hebrew word for understanding “ayin” as infinite. Infinite means limitless or eternal.

Isa 40…28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.

“omniscience” The word “omni” is all, and the word “science” is knowledge.

So is it fair to say that God has always known? Or did God not know and later learn something?

***********

I'm not asking for full understanding. What does the Bible say? Ants can't read the Bible, but you can. How great is your God?

 

Rippon,I must not be a people then by your reasoning! I needed to respond because of my sin and subsequently responded to the gospel out of utter gratitude and amazement that Jesus loves me! God's truth is stronger than any lie. All men are free and able to choose. Inability to choose would lay a great many things at Gods feet.

 

Because of the fall of man.

Only because the Bible say it.

man

Man sinned. He is guilty. God would have been just to kill man on the spot. He didn't.

Yes...Within the "maze" if you will, God is in full control. Yet man makes a choice from his only desires. Mans will is the problem.

:wavey:

 

Why does not all people come to God?????

1 John 4: 19.....We love, because He first loved us.

 

Oh, he will lay that at God's doorstep, Rip, trust me.
This guy wants God guilty of everything and man innocent of a lot of things.

 

No...I says the REASON why we love, is that he 1st loved us.

and when he LOVES US....
1 Cor 13: 8....Love never fails;

 

also...maybe we should add this again, being that we are on the love of God..

 

Because all men are different.....some can be persuaded and some not. Pretty simple concept. Paul obeyed Jesus in Acts 26 in order to persuade. Acts 26:17b-18 I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me. Acts 26:28,29 Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?" Paul replied "Short time or long- I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains." Tim2: 22-26 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith,love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the lords servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
Absolutely agree with your use of 1 John and said same in my first post

 

I don't know if I do agree with that. Let's look at the curse and see what it says.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

God's curse on Eve dealt with childbirth and most likely motherhood as well. She would also want to rule over her husband, but not be able to.

Adam's curse was on the ground. He would have to work very hard to make a living and earn his bread. Thorns and thistles should spring up.

The only curse on Adam is that he would return to the dust.

Now you tell me, where is any mention of a curse on man's moral nature here? Where does it say man would lose his free will and the ability to choose between good and evil? Where does it say man would be utterly enslaved to a sin nature?

And it's a joke for you to say I blame God for a sin nature, you do. I have always said man has a choice to do both good and evil. I have showed that Cain could have chosen to do good or evil numerous times.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It is you that teaches that God cursed man's moral nature and made him incapable of choosing for God, even though that is never mentioned once in all of scripture. And if God caused this inability to pass on man, then he is responsible. And I quoted a Calvinist who said so. Here is more from Dr. Samuel Hopkins who was known for "consistent Calvinism".

Dr. Hopkins is consistent. If God cursed man so that he could never respond positively to God, then God is indeed responsible for man's sin.

You may not like this, but this was a very common belief among Calvinists in the 19th century.

 

“God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go either wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong; I cannot. If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having” (C.S. Lewis).

 

Wait a minute Webdog. A Calvinist cannot quote John 3:16, they have to say, "For God so loved (some of the world).... And when quoting Matthew 11:28, they have to say, "Come unto me (some of you) who labor and are heavy laden...

Calvinism makes a mockery out of too much of the bible to be true.

 

It was in this manner that God loved the believing ones...

Of course the Lord made them believers in the first place.

I guess you didn't notice that this passage is restrictive. All those who labor and are heavy-laden is speaking of only those who are in that condition.Each and every person is not undergoing the aforementioned labor and experiencing that heavy burden. The passage is saying all of that group. It is not speaking of each and every person -- past,present and future.

And you may have some snow on your roof -- but your wisdom is deficient.

 

It is clear by all that I'm a Calvinist....
It is also clear by all readers, I quoted John 3: 16...
It is not clear you don't tell the truth about CALVINIST....

Matt 11:28....Come unto me....
Calvinist know of this verse too. They believe that this applies to ALL of man kind, unlike what you just claimed Calvinist believe. Again we do not deny this.

But......WHO COMES?

Romans 3 says....NNE!!!

You see Calvinist take ALL of the Bible into account, not just a few verses that speak of Gods offer.

Humm. If this be true, you need to prove it. So far your own words mock you.

 

That was a good one :laugh:

 

Hogwash. Anyone who is not brainwashed by these false doctrines can easily see Calvinism perverts the true meaning of many, many scriptures.

Denying it doesn't change the truth.