Making a Decision

Post deleted for being off topic. If you wish to discuss things of those nature, please start your own thread in the appropriate forum. This forum is for discussions of soteriology.

[ August 16, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

First, the "article of justification" is not the guide of truth. The word of God is. Second, I am not arguing that making a decision is "saying that I, by my own reason and strength, was able to believe in Jesus my Lord." I do not believe that and preach against it. But that is not at issue here. The issue is that justification comes by faith. There is no other kind.

The "decision" is a person who "confesses with their mouth Jesus as Lord and believes in their heart that God has raised him from the dead." You are arguing against what Paul teaches to be true.

You quote this but I wonder why. It refutes your position. I shows that faith is not a deed of the law. Righteousness comes by faith. That faith is the faith of the individual who makes a decision to believe in Christ after his mind has been opened to the things of God (Rom 10:9ff.).

 

ARGHHH!!! Here we go again ... As we have said before, he can do anything he wants to do. He is limited only by his own sin. No one is making him reject God. He is doing what he wants to do. He has the option that at anytime he so desires, he can change his mind. His inability is a moral inability, brought on by his own sinfulness. Every unbeliever I talk to has the choice; they simply choose not to make it. </font>[/QUOTE]Then you are saying that Jesus' atonement for sins of the world is a useless matter.

If Jesus atonement is for the sins of the world as scriptures declare, then it is for all the sins of the world, and man is not limited by his own sin as you suggest.

Jesus' atonement for the sins of the world established once-for-all that salvation is a matter of faith alone and nothing more.

Atoned-for Sins are not used against man when man is judged. Judgement is on the basis of faith alone.

Doesn't that counter the doctrine of "the elect"?

How can one be "elect" if one must make a choice?

If everyone must choose, 'everyone' includes those who are "the elect".

If everyone has to make a choice for themselves, then what is the purpose of an "elect".

Everyone receives a call from the Holy Spirit.

Everyone must make a decision regarding that call.

Thus everyone receives the call and chooses to believe or not believe, it is not a matter of some nebulous "elect".

The call becomes effectual based upon the choice of the individual.

Where is Calvin when you need him?

 

I'm sure this debate will go on and on, since it has raged for centuries already. I can only say that I grew up in a SBC church that was definitely Arminian (even though no one ever used that word). I was told confidently that "God chooses those who choose Him." That settled that. Only after I reached adulthood and began to study Scripture on my own did I discover that this assertion did not seem to correspond to what was written in the Bible. It made little sense once Scripture was examined in its totality. At least, that was my impression. I can only say here that it doesn't bother me at all to think that the Lord predetermined my salvation, or that "free will" as commonly defined is not a necessary correlative to moral responsibility. Although I don't fully grasp the idea of election, I will continue to study it, hopefully without an agenda to either prove or disprove it.

 

When Christ calls man to believe, to take up his cross and follow him, to confess him as Lord, that is a decision no matter which way you cut it. It is a decision enabled by the Spirit's work in teh life. To deny it is a decision is to deny the very reality of the act. The decision to believe flows inevitably from the Spirit's creation of faith. You simply reject hte idea of decision, not the reality of what the decision is.

 

This doesn't make sense. I believe the atonement is for the world. Man is limited by his own sinful choices.

I agree.

Only partially true. Sins are the basis for eternal judgment (Rev 21:8; Rev 20:11-15; John 5:22-24; etc.). To say that judgmetn is on the basis of faith is simply wrong. However you are right that atoned for sins are not used against a man when he is judged. That man is judged by Christ's righteousness.

[QUOTEDoesn't that counter the doctrine of "the elect"? </font>[/QUOTE]No.

Because election is election that includes the choice and the ability to make that choice. We have been through this many times. Weren't you listening then??

Yes it does. The elect most certainly choose. The non-elect choose to reject Christ or to go on their own way without him.

The elect are God's chosen ones for salvation. The purpose is the glory of God in grace as a study of Eph 1:4-11 will show.

I agree.

I agree.

Only partially true. Everyone is called to believe. He commands all men everywhere to repent. But the elect are the ones who do that.

No it doesn't. You have not one verse of Scripture that backs this up. We hashed this out many times and not one of you -- not Bill, not Ray, not you, not Bob, -- not a single one of you ever supported this claim from Scripture.

Who needs him?? I certainly don't. All we need is Scripture.

 

No it doesn't. You have not one verse of Scripture that backs this up. We hashed this out many times and not one of you -- not Bill, not Ray, not you, not Bob, -- not a single one of you ever supported this claim from Scripture.</font>[/QUOTE]This should not require a scripture to understand it. When you were young and your parent(s) called you for dinner, the call was only effectual when you showed up for dinner. If you did not, you missed dinner! Depending on you parent(s), you may or may not have gotten fed before going to bed. If you did not, I'll bet you didn't miss the next call.

The Call of God on an individual is only effectual when the individual responds to the call. If God calls and you do not respond, can the call be effectual? No, it is an interactive call...He calls and you either respond or not respond the choice is yours.