Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage

DD, if scripture says I can't remarry, then I won't. But it doesn't. No need to go over that topic again, as there have been (insert the number of hairs on one's head here) topics devoted to that already.

 

John, you and I both know that it is an interpretation issue. I believe that the testimony of Scripture is plainly in favor of the no remarriage except for death position.

 

DD, so, if it's an interpretation issue, why is one interpretation any more correct than another? Bottom line is, sin is sin. Would YOU like to throw the first stone?

 

How about posting something meaningful here?

I do believe remarriage after divorce is sin. I have the ability to use as much scriptural evidence as the other side. That one can prove a position from the Bible ins't the issue in this discussion.

It all comes down to how one prioritizes the issues involved. I just happen to agree with Christ and Paul (meant to be funny, but I am serious).

 

I don't know what you mean by "post something meaningful". I interpreted your previous reply to mean that anyone can interpret the Scripture to their favor and, so, my question was, how does one know which interpretation is correct? One reason I don't post on these boards very often is because, for a bunch of mostly-Baptist Christians, communication is poor while insults, condemnation and holier than thou attitudes are abundant.

 

1st.... misinave....I fear ya do have a point there about the spirit of many in here.
2nd....I think everybody in this thread ought to take a few minutes and read the article that the link below will take you too.You may or may not agree with the authors conclusions but he at least makes and honest attempt to let the Bible say what it says by comparing scripture with scripture.It will take you a bit to read but it is worth it...and I suspect many of you will bookmark it and read it several times with your bibles OPEN.

http://web.mountain.net/morton/marriage.htm#Top

Check it out....and be OBJECTIVE when you do.

Greg Sr.

 

These are the qualifications of a pastor: blameless,the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil" (1 Timothy 3:1-7).

That being said I know that we are not necessarily talking about just Pastors. I just want to show that God forgives all sin.

If you want to say that a man is disqualified from Pastoring because he has been married and divorced then you better look at a few other things. Ever been drunk? Lost your temper? Been in a fight? If you want to say that because of divorce a man is not fit for the pulpit, he is equally disqualified if he ever once broke any other qualifiers. Saved or unsaved. That is the condition people place on divorce and remarriage above any other act. Why just that one?

I believe God is a consistant God that forgives and restores us for all sin. sometimes a person has no choice but to divorce due to severely abusive situations etc.

I believe husband of one wife refers to a one woman kind of man. Not to have more than one wife at a given time. The interpretation is as valid as one wife in a lifetime. Hod is not consistant with that interpretation.

 

Here is a question I'd like to ask concerning divorce.

If someone is married by a justice of the peace, not in a church and it is an abusive marriage,can they seek a divorce for the safety of self and any children and remarry later?

I've not found anywhere in the Bible that says we must subject ourselves to physical danger in marriage..however, I do believe that marriage is not to be entered into lightly nor left. It is in my opinion a til death do you part commitment unless personal safety were to cause someone to break that commitment.
I know that the book of Ephesians defines HOW a marriage should be...What are your thoughts?

I'll wait patiently for your response.

 

Marriage is a covenant between a man, a woman and God and it doesn't matter whether you used a Justice of the Peace or a minister, the 'rules' still apply. Scripture doesn't give 'abuse' as a reason for divorce. Remove yourself for safety's sake but no divorce and no remarriage.

 

Abuse is a prima facie case that a person has abandoned the marriage, and is no longer willing to live in it. In accordance with 1 Cor 7, divorce is permitted. Most would say that remarriage is permitted as well, though some would not.

As Diane said, who performs hte marriage is not significant. Marriage is marriage.

 

Pastor Larry, having been in that situation, I agree with you. I will ask some, if one was in an a long term abusive marriage and only managed to get out when the kids were grown; divorced and has not remarried even though the abuser is dead; would that person not have the right to remarry now without condemnation?

 

I think, on the basis of Scripture, that a person in that situation has a right to remarry even if the abuser is not dead ... given other qualifications being met.

 

Then one could say that a spouse who was ill and unable to provide for his wife and children had deserted the marriage and could be divorced. NOPE.

Sorry..... you should allow God to choose your mate. Marriage to an abuser is sad but not included in the reasons Jesus allowed for divorce.
Go to your pastor. (Do NOT tell me you didn't marry a Christian or are not in church!) Call the police. Send your children to live in a safe place. Protect yourself and children, by all means, but no divorce.

Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

 

No, one could not say that Diane. I think too often in this discussion people jump to extremes to try to make a point. HOowever, your conclusion is completely unwarranted. A person who is intentionally abusing his wife and children is not living in the marriage. They have deserted it.

You say call the police? What are they going to do? Exactly what you tell them. If you press charges, that would seem to violate your interpretation and application of the verses you cite. If you press charges, you will get a restraining order and/or jail time, in which case the you are not living together and you are effectively divorced. I am not saying you shouldn't call the police. You probably should, but that hardly is an escape from the issue at hand.

And your citations about forgiveness don't wash either, since this person is unrepentant. I have a completely different view if the person is repentant and willing to live in the marriage. This person is not.

It is curious to hear "Don't tell me you didn't marry a Christian or are not in church." Why not? Is this not a place for ministry in the life of people? I daresay you don't believe more strongly than me in local church involvement and attendance. But that is a hardly a criteria for this situation. So I am not sure what you meant by that.

One last comment: Christ gives only one reason for divorce. Paul, under the inspiration of the Spirit, gives another (adding to Jesus's "only one," because he is in a different context. That seems to indicate that there may be more than just two reasons for divorce. Those reasons address specific situations in a historical context.

 

Something that needs to be mentioned here is that I think everyone agrees that when the former spouse is dead, remarriage is permitted.

Larry, abuse is not abandonment. You don't get to redefine words to fit your position. Abandonment is just that. It is when a person is NO LONGER THERE.

I had to do a double take. Usually only Johnv does the redefining thing.

Seriously, the I Cor. text dictates that it was the UNBELIEVER who left the BELIEVER. Again, we don't get to add to that.

 

Pastor Larry said:

If somethings going wrong in our lives, the first place we need to turn is the Lord, our Pastor, Christian friends and our church!

WHY? Why do we allow people to 'blame God' when their spouse hurts them, cheats on them or leaves them when they never even involved their Heavenly Father in the choice of said spouse! Also, if a woman or man is not in church and is having problems at home, could it not be that they're not living for the Lord in their marriage?

Bad decisions and sin bring consequences. God will forgive the repentant sinner but the ramifications can still remain.


2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. 14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

 

I've not posted on here for so long, because of the unkindness and smart aleckness that I see in so many people here. On a Christian board, never should there be "rolling of the eyes" faces, and things of that nature. I'm sure if you parents had a child that rolled his eyes at you, you would discipline them right fast. Also, when someone genuinely wants to discuss something, arguments ensue so fast. There are smart aleck remarks and short, know-it-all attitudes, without a bit of humility and love for the other person. People say things to each other on this website, that they'd never dream of saying to someone in real life, or to Jesus Himself. If I had a church with members like this, I'd never go back. If I had a pastor that counseled others in this manner, I'd never go back. I believe things can and should be discussed with all humility towards each other, because right as we think we are, with all the Scriptures we have to back us up, we ought to have the attitude of consideration that we may just be wrong on certain issues. I've continued to read from this site, although not posting, and this board has taught me a lot and strengthened me as a Christian. I'm humble enough to LISTEN and to change when the Lord shows me something.

That being said, I wanted to speak on the issue of divorce and remarriage. I totally agree with the things that Pastor Larry has shared. I believe there are 2 CLEAR allowances for divorce (and consequently) re-marriage in the Bible, which is sexual sins and abandonment. I do not think that it is redefining abandonment when you include abuse there too. The reason I say this is because there is Scripture that says a man and woman are not to defraud one another of a sexual relationship. Do those verses give any outs?? Do those verses give any exceptions? No, they don't, but of course, we would never (or should never) expect a wife to have relations with her husband who has brought home AIDS and/or other sexual diseases to her. But this is not specified in Scripture, is it?? Common sense, based on the whole Word of God, tells us that in that case, the Lord would not expect a woman to subject herself to that.

I wanted to also address the forgiveness issue. Forgiveness is so very important. However, being forgiven does NOT take away the consequences of one's sins. I have a very close friend, whose husband was raping her daughter for YEARS. She can forgive him, but it does not take away the fact that he MUST be jailed and should NEVER be around children again. Forgiveness NEVER means that the consequences are erased. Sometimes things can never be the same. Sure, you should treat the other person with kindness, and should pray for them. But the consequences are still there.

Forgiveness NEVER means one has to subject him or herself to repeated abuse. Yes, you overlook little things in marriages and other relationships, because we are all sinners and all make mistakes. But there are very real, extreme things that should never be overlooked or allowed. Our pastor says that if you are bitten by a dog once, shame on the dog. If you are bitten by the dog again, shame on YOU. BTW- I've seen the same verses on forgiveness applied to not going to war. Sometimes things can be taken to extremes.

With LOTS of love, care, and concern,
Hsmom3

 

AMEN AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!! hsmom3.....WELL SAID AND GOD BLESS YOU!

Greg Sr.

 

So you really think that beating up your spouse is living in the marriage? That is really strange, to me anyway. But maybe that's just me. I assume that the believer is not beating up his/her spouse.

 

[QUOTIf somethings going wrong in our lives, the first place we need to turn is the Lord, our Pastor, Christian friends and our church![/quote][/qb]That's true. I wouldn't dispute that.

I don't know that we do. But once a person is married, that is all "water under the bridge." The question is not, What should we have done? It is "What do we do now?"

Sure, it could be. It may not be. There may be a godly person whose spouse is ungodly and causing trouble.

I don't' think anyone here would dispute that, but I really don't see that as the topic of conversation. Your citation of David's situation with Bathsheba where his baby died is a great illustration that I think works against you. God did not forbid David from ever seeing Bathsheba or having relations with her. Nor did God make them childless. God forgave them, and allowed them to get on with their lives. It is no different with others.

God does not intend for divorce to take place. It is not his best. And divorced people will always have to live with the consequences, memories, split homes for children, etc. That does not mean that they cannot remarry.