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Featured New Birth before and Unto Faith !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Mar 19, 2012.

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  1. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    I agree 100% with everything you said! :thumbs:

    All I see is a whole bunch of Scriptures posted out of context. Still trying to figure out how Romans 1:16-17 has anything to do with "new birth preceding faith". None of what I've read so far makes any sense.
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    By the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead !



    1 Pet 1:2-3

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Here we have by Divine inspiration that the resurrection of Christ, by way of His Redeeming Death, is being viewed as the meritorious cause of the New Birth performed by the Spirit of the Covenant, so it is feasible to call the Second Man Adam, who is Christ an Quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    That word quickening is the greek word zōopoieō and means:


    to produce alive, begat or bear living young

    2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

    a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

    b) to restore to life
    to give increase of life: thus of physical life

    d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

    3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing





    As the Risen Adam, having paid for the sins of all for whom He died, for all whom sins had been laid to His Charge Rom 4:25, and now having satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf, they have the right to live Spiritually before God, so He causes them to Live, He gives them Spiritual Life.

    He does this for His Seed Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    This is why as the Risen Lord He is a Life Giving Spirit, to give Spiritual Life to all for whom He died. Thats why He said of His Sheep Jn 10:10

    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    Life here is Spiritual Life, which His Death for them shall merit ! And so by His Resurrection He lives and shall save them by His Life Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Thats what Paul means, shall be saved by His Life that of 1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    Christ must make Alive Spiritually, all for whom He died and rose again ! And He does by His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    This being begotten again means:

    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Christ Death makes us Alive !

    Makes us alive through Jesus Christ !



    Rom 6:11

    Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The Primary Accomplishment or Effect of the Death of Christ for all those He died for, is that He makes them Alive unto God. That's what Paul taught here and what Peter taught 1 Pet 1:3. Now the word through here is the prep en which is :

    A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between εἰς (G1519) and ἐκ (G1537))

    All for whom Christ were in Him Legally when He died and when He was made Alive from the Dead, so much so, we are are said to have be quickened together with Him when He was made alive from the grave Eph 2:5-6

    5 Even when we were dead[experimentally] in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    This quickened together is the greek word syzōopoieō and means:


    to make one alive together

    a) of Christians, with Christ


    Now this was True because we were in Him, Legally and representatively.

    So Paul says reckon yourselves alive unto God through, or in Christ Jesus. Also the word in means instrument of means, we are made alive experimentally through Christ as the means !

    Now Peter speaks to that in 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    This being begotten again is by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, now remember Paul taught in Eph 2:6 that we were made alive together with Christ, that also speaks to the resurrection of Christ, that all for whom He died were in Him Legally and representatively ! Now the evidence of that, is that all who were in Him Legally when He rose, shall be experimentally begotten again. The words begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    This New Life we shall begin to live for God is what Paul means when He says reckon yourselves alive to God through Jesus Christ !

    Yes, Christ's Death accomplished this New Life to God for everyone He died for, no exceptions. Now all those who are lost in their sins , means that Christ did not die for them !
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Love for the Truth !



    Saving Faith is not only an mental assent in the spiritual mind, but also an affection with the Heart for the object of Faith. The Regenerated Man believes with His Heart Rom 10:9 the word heart is the greek word kardia and means:


    denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

    1) the vigour and sense of physical life

    2) the centre and seat of spiritual life

    a) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

    b) of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence

    A unregenerate man has no spiritual life or affections for the things of God !

    Love to Christ must accompany True Faith, because to us that believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:6-7

    6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

    7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

    There was something recognized about the Saviour, which gave Him value, He was made to be esteemed to those who Believe, but by nature, we esteem Him not Isa 53:3

    He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

    Notice the Prophet says we [Believers] esteem him not, meaning by Nature we do not esteem, regard or value Him ! Thats because by nature we are void of any spiritual perception of who He is !

    And also when Believing on Christ, there must be a affection of Love because we are receiving the Love of the Truth , contrary to the reprobate who receive it not, and Christ is the Truth ! 2 Thess 2:10

    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    Jn 14:6

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    The Love of the Truth, for Faith worketh by Love ! Gal 5:6

    For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    When Paul was converted by Grace, God gave Him Faith in place of Unbelief and Love instead of Hate 1 Tim 1:13-14

    13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

    14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

    So the Love of the Truth in the Gospel, is but Love to Him. Now I show this to show, that the false teachers say a man may believe on Christ as a unregenerate, dead in trespasses and sins, ungodly sinner ! That they in a natural state of alienation from the Life of God, can and do spiritually recognize the suitableness and preciousness of the Risen Christ, which of course is all lies ! Not one scripture can support that error !
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Promise of the Spirit for New Birth !

    Isa 44:3

    3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

    Do you know why The Father gave the Son the Spirit upon His arrival to heaven to sit on His Throne of Glory ? Acts 2:32-33

    32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Its because of such promises as Isa 44:3, for as a Reward for His Covenant Death, God the Father gives it that Jesus Christ's seed, all those He died for, shall be blessed with all Spiritual Blessing, which the Holy Spirit is the applier of !

    This Promise has been applied to His Servant Jesus Christ, who bare the sins of Many, and Now He shall see His Seed Isa 53:10-11

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    He shall see His Seed that He died for, be born again of the Spirit and of incorruptible Seed. And this was a Spiritual Seed, not confine to only ethnic jews, but this Promise of the Spirit applied to His Seed amongst the Gentiles Gal 3:13-14


    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    What Blessing of Abraham ? This one Gen 22:17

    That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

    Heb 6:13-14

    13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

    Yes, the Blessing here is Salvation and The Spirit of Promise applying the Spiritual Promise to all the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, from amongst the jews as evidenced in Acts 2 and amongst the Gentiles as evidenced in Acts 10, both were Abraham's Seed, and Christ's Seed of which Isa 44:3 was being fulfilled ! This Pouring Out of the Spirit is the capstone of " Surely Blessing I will Bless thee, and multiplying I would Multiply thee " With Spiritual Children of Faith ! Gal 3:16,29

    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    That why we know it was Abraham's Spiritual Seed all the Time, because it was only His Seed through His Future Spiritual Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who had a Seed Chosen in Him before the world Began. So Jesus is called the Son of Abraham to typify this Matt 1:1

    The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham[Gal 3:16].
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you hold to the seed of Abraham being Christ, or to it being isreal?

    Do you hold to jews being of physical birth, or of spiritual birth?
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Regeneration or New Birth is the Spiritual Application and implantation of that Spiritual Life as a result of being quickened together with Christ, when He was Raised [As our Surety and Head] from the Dead Eph 2:6

    And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    The word raised synegeirō and means:

    to raise together, to cause to raise together

    2) to raise up together from mortal death to a new and blessed life dedicated to God

    So the New Birth in Time is the evidence of all whom were in Christ when He rose as their Surety from the Dead. Hence we are Born Again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3


    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Before this, we are spiritually dead Eph 2:5

    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    And this is what it means to be Saved by Grace, to be given a New Birth because of the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead as Our Federal Head and Shepard, who gave His Life for the Sheep !
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Same Spirit of Faith !



    2 Cor 4:13-14

    13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

    14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

    This is similar to saying what Peter wrote 2 Pet 1:1

    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    In our Text it is the Spirit of God being referred to as the Spirit of Faith, because faith in the heart is of His producing, its not of ourselves, for it is His Fruit, the other fruits in the heart are of His producing as well, such as love, Joy and Peace Gal 5:22

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    That word fruit in the greek is karpos and means:


    that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

    When one is born again, they receive a spiritual nature which produces Faith, Love and etc.

    The one just born of flesh does not produce Faith !

    Here is what the flesh produces and the list is partial here Gal 5:18-21


    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Now how can Faith in Christ be generated from the flesh ? Its a miracle if man dead in trespasses and sins can put Faith in Christ for Salvation ! And if it is done without being born again which is God's way, then the man who did place saving faith in Christ did perform their own miracle as if they were God Almighty themselves !
     
  9. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    And on and on and on we go
     
    #249 Fred's Wife, Jun 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    SBG is a proselyter. He is not debating anyone but this is a debate forum. He could care less if anyone disagrees with him. I think in his little confused mind he thinks by merely compiling posts that he is relieving himself of any responsibility before God and making all readers accountable. However, that is not the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum is to debate not to list endless posts.
     
  11. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Would that be called "trolling" or "spamming"?
     
  12. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    SBM is a hyper-Calvinist, nothing you can say will persuade him he is wrong.

    I actually like his posts if only for the reason that it reveals how fanatical this system of belief is to others.

    This fellow out hypers Luke, and that is saying a lot.
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    That they may also be sanctified !



    Jn 17:19

    And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

    Heb 13:12

    12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

    Heb 10:10

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ or His Blood once for all.

    All those for whom Christ died for, His offering of Himself in Death, all those must be born again, that is made experientially sanctified, an inward sanctification, so that His Sacrifice of Death for the people will be proven to be of much more effectiveness and giving inward renovation to the things of God. For even the sacrifices of animals provided an outward sanctification or one that was temporal, but did nothing for the inner man Heb 10:1

    For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    Heb 9:13

    For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    But because Christ's Sacrifice was so much superior, His Blood so much more excellent it provides a superior sanctification. So the promises of the Covenant He is Mediator of, Because of His Death, God promises to do these things to secure their Sanctification inwardly Jer 31:31-34

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Verse 33 is the promise of the New Birth, giving that inward man sanctification, of which the OC sacrifices could not do for the people they were made in behalf of ! But Christ's Sacrifice produces so much better results !
     
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Being begotten again !



    1 Pet 1:3


    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    This being begotten again means being born again, anew 1 Pet 1:23

    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    This being born again or begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead means that because He lives after death, all who He died and rose again must live also Jn 14:19; 1 Cor 15:22, this because He lived and died as their Federal Head and Surety Representative, and for that, all whom He represented must partake and do partake of His Resurrection See Phil 3:10. All for whom He died and rose again in behalf of have a title to it. Also in light of that it is written Rom 5:19b

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Being made Righteous here is Experientially Righteous, just as by the disobedience of the one [Adam] the many were made experientially sinners ! We become experientially righteous by New Birth !

    The word made above as in made righteous is the greek word kathistēmi and does mean:


    to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

    To make Righteous, the word make means:

    to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts

    to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about

    to cause to be or become; render

    And so through Christ's one act of obedience the may He died for shall be caused to be righteous, constituted righteous which carries the idea of being created Eph 4:24

    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    All for whom Christ died shall be by New Birth from partaking of His Resurrection created into this New Man, created in Righteousness and True Holiness, Thank God for His Unspeakable Gift of Jesus Christ !
     
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The word does not profit if not mixed with Faith !



    Heb 4:2

    For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

    Did you know that the Gospel was preached to the OC People Israel also ? The same Gospel that was Preached under the New Covenant ? However as then do it is today, the Gospel being preached does not profit or prevail to those who hear it if they have no Faith; And their is no Faith without the fruit and grace of the Spirit. For believing is not the producer of Grace, but Grace [The Spirit] is the producer of Faith, hence we that do believe, believe through Grace ! Acts 18:27

    27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

    Notice, the Word they heard , the Gospel they heard did not profit because not mixed with Faith. Now how does that square with Rom 10:17

    17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Certainly the hearing here is different from that of Heb 4:2. Here in Rom 10:17 the hearing produces Faith, there the hearing produces nothing because of lack of Faith ! What is the difference ? The Grace of the Spirit. When one has Spiritual Life already, when they hear with spiritual ears, that produces Faith because Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, the effect of New Birth !
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    SBM said
    Repentance and faith are fruits of the New Birth.

    TCGreek said:
    Since you have Scripture on your side, direct me to those texts, please. Thank you.

    Since you are not interested in debate SBM perhaps you should stop posting. You are not being civil, and your purpose on this board is questionable to say the least.
     
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Ezk 36:26



    When God gives the New Heart in New Birth, He is giving these things as well

    Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    The word heart here is the word leb and means:


    inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

    a) inner part, midst

    1) midst (of things)

    2) heart (of man)

    3) soul, heart (of man)

    4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory

    5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

    6) conscience

    7) heart (of moral character)

    8) as seat of appetites

    9) as seat of emotions and passions

    10) as seat of courage

    The same word is translated understanding here Prov 6:32

    32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

    As wisdom here Job 36:

    5 Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.

    Its translated Mind Num 16:28

    28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.


    So in New Birth He gives as a Gift of Grace a New Heart which means New Will, Understanding, Affections , Mind and other Faculties, that is needed to Live a New Life unto the Glory of God, to begin with Faith and Repentance, which is a change of mind !
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This is more philosophy than Scripture. You have read a lot into the little Scripture that you did give, and even then you have given no definitive proof that repentance is a fruit of the new birth, much less faith.
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    Thats your opinion and excuse for your avoiding it !
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    They that know His Name shall Trust in Him Eph 1:13



    Ps 9:10

    10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

    Eph 1:13

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    It seems this scripture Ps 9:10 gives us to understand that a Knowledge of God or Christ is a qualification in order for one to put their Trust in His Name or in Him; but the knowledge comes as a fruit of the New Birth Heb 8:11

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    Jer 31:34

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
     
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