News: World Hostile Toward the USA

Mozier, just keep digging that hole. BTW, what has the Treaty of Westphalia got to do with it? The US didn't even exist then

SheEagle - I agree that the UK has a lot to answer for, not for giving these nationalities independence, but for colonising them in the first place. It's just sad to see you guys repeat our mistakes.

BTW, the right-wing White Supremacist survivalists who hole themselves up in Montana (or wherever) from time to time call themselves Christians, as do the IRA, the UFF, the UVF and UDA - does that mean Christianity is a 'homicidal' religion too?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Well, you are misinformed. There IS a time difference. Some of us do have to work. Plus I had to get my hair trimmed & run errands.

Occasionally, I "hit" a few posts on the BB during working hours. (Now before some Pharisee wags the finger & accuses me of cheating my employer, I will rebutt that I'm on salary and work a lot of weekend hours that is not overtime. So there!)

I expect another terrorist attack in the US.

But the point being missed here, and I think the larger issue, is this terrorism deal is far from over and the UK and European countries are not off scott free! Your time will undoubtedly come, not because of your foreign policy, the good or evil of you, or anything other than there is a religion out there that seeks to dominate the world.

The sooner you wake up to the reality of it, the better off you will be. It's coming your way. All you need to do is study the History of Islam, the quotes by major mullahs and imams, even the so-called moderate ones, look around you at all the Islamic countries and how the majority of their countries became Islamic, and you will see the Modus Operandi. (Attorney Matt, check my spelling, please on that one.) Whole countries and civilizations and peoples in Africa are being exterminated daily by Muslims. The countries are falling like dominoes, one by one. It is in one sense the East versus the West, in another sense, it is good versus evil, in another sense, it is Satan against Christians as one sees all the Christians globally who are being slaughtered and tortured because they love Jesus.

It has been widely acclaimed by some mullahs that their goals are to take over Downing Street and Pennsylvania Avenue.

This is not Islamophobic, this is history. This is what one sees when one examines and peels away the pretense of this so-called religion of peace, looking down into its heart, the roots of where & why it originated, the objectives, the history of it, the whole kaboodle. I had no idea about this until after 09/11 when I began a personal quest to find the truth and was grieved and shocked at what I found.

<a href="http://www.vicmord.com/audio/pt2.ram" target="_blank">
A Recording to Download: The Rise & Fall of Islam x 3 - We are in the Third One - A Global Threat. </a>

So it is easy to sit back in your own comfort zone looking at us across the pond here and have a little bit of a self righteous attitude - forgive me for saying that - because a 09/11 has not happened to you in recent history.

You think we Americans don't think about what happened to us? You think we have our heads buried in the sand? Well some do. Some have jumped on the old bandwagon to "Blame America first."

And some of our supposed European & UK friends have seemingly jumped on the bandwagon. I have noticed, for example, in thread after thread started on this board, there are put downs on America, endeavors to make America look bad, not only by some across the big pond, but by some who say they live here. It is pretty safe to say that about 10-12% of Americans really do hate America. I am not one of them.

You want a serious discussion on this thread or is what I say going to be ripped to shreds in an attempt to "PROVE" me wrong? Forgive me for being skeptical but this did seem to me to be another one of those put-down America threads, even though you are posting on an American (even though accessed internationally) board.

If you want a serious discussion, if you really want to know how some of us feel, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to let me speak my peace and trust you will respect my views & not try to rip me to pieces. Unfortunately, that is usually not the way of message boards.

But if you really want to know, I'll say this. I find it really a sad thing that while America had a President who was more concerned about sexual exploits than foreign policy or acting on terrorism when he had opportunity after opportunity, even turning down OBL when offered to him--when we had a President for 8 years who allowed our military technology to be sold to the Chinese, while he did so many things too numerous to mention here, that the world seemed to have more respect for the US President whose genitals were the subject of Internet fodder, than for G.W. Bush. To me, there is something dreadfully wrong with that picture. Is the world, by and large, so degenerate that the US President's sexual exploits endear him to the rest of the world? I find it sad.

Do I agree with our foreign policy? Most of the time, no. Do I agree with the trash coming out of Hollywood? No. Do I agree with the fact that we slaughter millions of babies every year through legal abortion mills? No. Do I agree with our liberal courts who adjudicate from the benches? No. Do I agree with the elected politicians who make laws and undermine the US Constitution? No. Do I agree with MTV and the indoctrination of our young people with a hedonistic lifestyle? No.

Are the hands of Europe clean and spotless or is Europe just as sinful, just as depraved as society in the US? Probably about the same and maybe even more so in some areas. So the overall answer is a heart condition.

But the world's perception of America is what they see from Hollywood and the attitudes in New York and the West Coast and in Washington, DC. THAT, my friends across the pond, IS NOT THE REAL AMERICA! One only has to look at the 2000 US election map & one can see where the REAL AMERICA lies & that is in the heart land. If that isn't enough, listen to our Country Music. Yes, some is about cheating & drinking, but the bulk of it is about real live people, waitresses, truck drivers, people trying to make a living. Look at our brave men & women in the Military. This is the cream of American crop. Not the protesters lying in the streets selfishly trying to prove some point. But the young men & women who serve in our Military, selflessly give all they have to give & some even give the ultimate sacrifice. Not only do they do what they are called upon to do, but like your own military, they give humanitarian aid, medical assistance, rebuild infrastructure & schools and so much more. Yet the negative liberal press only looks at the bombs.

Forgive me for this long post. But you asked for it. I am going to paste something I wrote a few weeks after 09/11. This just about sums it up. It is a mixture of my passion, grief, shock, and anger. But it just about says it all. I pray you will never suffer a 09/11, but if you ever do, then maybe you will understand.

 

Thanks, SheEagle, for your thoughful post. Whilst I may profoundly disagree with you on quite a few issues, I can see where you are coming from and respect your integrity and your doggedness. BTW, top marks for spelling MO properly

I didn't see all of the BBC programme last night, but the Beeb has set up a bit of their website to the issue:- America .What I did hear loud and clear were two things: first, Saib Erekat (who I would imagine is not one of your fave people) said that he didn't think that his part of the world felt threatened by US culture; he lives in Jericho, whose culture goes back 10000 years (or less if you're a YE creationist I guess!), he can see the place where Jesus fasted from his window etc, so a culture that is less than 250 years old is not going to pose much of a threat. But the other thing that came across in the bit I saw was the comment, time and again, that what the developing world (inc the Middle East) sees of American culture is the superficial end of the spectrum - the McDonalds', the Burger Kings, the Pizza Huts, the fashions and films and TV shows. As you say, these are not really representative of US culture,and what people don't see are things like the work ethic, the strong family life and friendly values etc. So these guys try to imitate US culture in the hope of becoming more 'Western' (whatever that means), but they only experience the shallow end of it, with the result that they don't 'feel' more Western, and get confused and frustrated. So I guess if you really want to spread'American values' abroad, more emphasis needs to be laid on the better - dare I say, Christian - aspects rather than how many McDonalds exist in Cairo; how that is to be done is another matter...

I also agree that Europe is no better; in many ways, we are a post-Christian culture, with perhas the exception ironically of the more traditional Catholic countries.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

David, your last paragraph really does beg the question. I think part of the answer lies in the perceived arrogance of Americans towards the rest of the world, as exemplified by their cavalier disregard for the UN and the civilised norms of international law, and by the "we don't care what the rest of the world thinks" attitude that has been demonstrated by some posts on this board. The emerging theme seems to be 'power without responsibility'. If you want to have that attitude, that's fine, just don't expect the rest of us to like you that much - or to help you out next time...

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

The first thing to consider in this debate is the accuracy the BBC poll. Does it truly reflect the heartfelt opinions of all the people of the world toward the U.S., or does it reflect the heartfelt opinions of a very vocal minority toward the U.S.? How was the poll conducted? Who were the participants? Did any Americans participate in the poll (since we are also part of the world community we should be represented and our votes would curve the data don't you think)?

Likewise, you have to take human jealousy into consideration here. Some of the negative votes against the U.S. could have been inspired solely by a "sour grapes" mindset and not due to any real concern over American policy. This reminds me of my days in high school. At homecoming we would elect a Homecoming Queen. Generally, she was the prettiest, most popular (with the boys) girl in school. However, she would be elected by a landslide vote, which meant that the majority of girls in the school also voted for her. Then at the homecoming parade/football game you would hear these same girls talking trash about the Homecoming Queen (who that voted for) when they saw her with the crown and all the attention she received.

Additionally, I find it amusing that you would throw up a remark about the U.S. being only 250 years old. It is a very condescending attitude that quite frankly is beginning to sound like a broken record. Let me remind you that it has been the "superior" European mindset and aged wisdom that says, "Let’s wait and see," that generally resulted in this "new kid on the block" nation having to come racing to your rescue (WWI, WWII, and more recently the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo).

Sure some people and/or nations may be upset by recent U.S. actions taken to ensure our national security (and that of the world in general). However, are we to let a vocal minority stop us from doing what is right and best for everyone?

 

Most of the world sees that Islam is on the march to conquer the world. Europe is frightened to death that its oil will be cut off and its economies will wither. So most of the world wants to close its eyes to Islamic crimes against humanity and wants to appease Islam to keep the oil flowing. Plus Europe has a long history of anti-Americanism.

The problem for Europeans in the long run might be that Americans will develop a deep-seated hatred of Europe and all things European.

Islam hates America but at the same time accepts American subsidies to feed its population. As for Europe, I am for pulling American troops out of countries such as Germany as soon as possible.

 

I agree with the jealousy angle on this issue. Many Europeans like to point out that America is a young country with much to learn about the rest of the world, yet what other country has achieved what we have in such a short amount of time? If America were to fall the rest of the world would be impacted tremendously.

No other country even comes close to matching us in foreign aid given around the world. Our economy is practically the backbone of all things financial. Notice that when Bush began entertaining thoughts of pulling our troops out of Germany that Schroeder shut up his anti-war rhetoric immediately.

All the other countries expect us to intervene when there is a disaster or a political crises in their part of the world, yet Americans are not allowed to show pride in their country as it "offends" them. It's this "shut up and give us your money" mentality of other lands that is really beginning to anger many Americans. I think most Americans would be happy for a little bit of gratitude for the men we lost in both World Wars and our huge effort to keep communist Russia from dominating the world.

There is yet another factor in the hostile feelings towards America that may not have been addressed yet. The sheer numbers of Muslim immigrants that now inhabit Europe is staggering. It's no secret that the "peaceful" religion of Islam preaches it's followers to despise Christians and Jews. With such an influx of these idividuals living in their land and marrying it's people how can they resist their ideals being spread to their populace? Arafat's own wife has been living the good life with his millions in Paris now for many years. There's another thread here somewhere that the French helped some Iraqis escape during the war. This is just more proof that Europe has become an entire continent of arab sympathizers. In much the same way that American culture is absorbsing that of Mexico's due to the high numbers of immigrants, Europe's Muslim population is gaining power over there and becoming interwoven in their culture. And with this integration the Muslims bring with them their hatred of all things American.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

No, it really is not important what the rest of the world thinks about the USA. In the end, it all comes down to a nation and its right to defend itself as it sees fit.
__________________________________________________

It was nice to have NATO and other allies to support us. It would be nice to have other nations help in policing Iraq. One US general estimated that we'd be in Iraq with over 100,000 troops for the next 5-10 years. Of course, that's a strategic location. I suppose that's what Bush had in mind all along. From Iraq we can launch our invasion of Iran which already seems to be underway in terms of covert activities.

Is ruling the world worth it from a human and Christian perspective?

 

Given that some of the biggest oil exporters in the world are European (ie the UK is the 4th biggest in the world) I doubt that is the case.

 

David, I agree with you on this, and I must say on this matter, that in the Netherlands, most people think that America is too much busy with interferring with lots of things they shouldn't be. And also the mentality of: "we don't need the rest of the world, we can do it on our own." And then there's the naive way of thinking which the dutch also dislike about Americans. Example: We have the war-criminal court in The Hague. Whenever we would have an American suspect, America don't want it to be there, but they'll put those people to court themselves. The Americans also have a law, that whenever we (in Holland) would send an American soldier to the war-criminal court, they (the Americans) can attack the Dutch. Ain't that strange? I think so. I mean America agrees when we put Yugoslavian war-criminals in court, but when it's themselves, they don't agree. I thought the reason for this court was to convict international war-criminals (so also American if any)
I'm not saying that all Dutch people think this way, but I think the poll BBC had was correct. I think that about 50-60% of the Dutch think this way about America.
I don't mean to offend any American people in this post, but just as David, I'm trying to get to know what and especially why there is so much anger against America.
David, I hope I gave you a reasonable answer, and I hope there will be more, from other countries, so we can get a global view about this subject.

God bless everyone!

 

Given that some of the biggest oil exporters in the world are European (ie the UK is the 4th biggest in the world) I doubt that is the case. </font>[/QUOTE]Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand corrected. Europe has no energy problems, is not dependent on Middle East oil, and in fact Europe exports oil. Therefore, I am boycotting French and German oil, and I urge you to boycott, also.

 

I have nothing personal against any country. Yet all these countries hate me simply because I am Americaan. Your poll proves that. And then we are told that since we are a young country we have a lot to learn. If being a old country teaches us to hate others we do not know, I hope America never ages.

Personally I am getting to the mind set of closing our borders, and extending no help to ny other country again. In High School we had German exchange students come for 3 weeks, most of them didn't even like Americans, so why come? In College, we had a lot of Japanese exchange students, only 2 liked Americans, why did they come? If you don't like America, don't come visit it. When we help, we are critisized for interfering, when we don't help we are critisized for not caring. America can't win. So I say, let us take care of ourselves, and let you take care of you. Our missionaries can do all the care giving, and the government can be neutral to all.

Trading goods can go on as usual, those who want to trade can. That is as long as it is a two way street. Do not export here, if you will not allow us to import there. If you put large farrifs on our goods, we will just mirror your policy at the docks.

I may sound bitter, but I am not. I am just one of many Americans who are tired of extending a hand to someone, then when I turn my back being talked ill of. I believe our country should have the same rules as my home. If you come in friendship, you are welcomed in. If you come to gripe and make rude comments to my friends or family, you will be sent away till you can be respectful. If you come to steal and try to cause bodily harm, you will be wheeled out.

 

Three page warning: This thread will be closed according to the 3-page rule no sooner than 3:00 a.m. ET by one of the Moderators.

SheEagle911
Moderator

 

the EU is no more dependent on middle east oil than the USA

 

Closing time. Thanks everyone!

SheEagle9/11
Moderator