NHL playoffs

The Peguins and Redwings start the finals tonight.

FEAR THE WADDLE!!!!

 

Go Penguins!

 

I'm sorry. You can't be serious. Malkin has been absolutely beaten to death all series, and you're going to get on your hind legs because he defended a teammate he felt got cheaped? (Not saying he did...you have to defend your goalie, though I'd call it a slight overreaction).

Besides, you don't decide a series off the ice. There was nothing malignant in what happened last night at the end. It was hockey. The DeadWing Ds will handle Malkin (as they have all series). You shouldn't have to have Colin Campbell do you rbidding for you.

I disagree that Malkin is a darling. He's not Syd, Ovechkin, etc. He is one of the better players though.

Now, you still want to fire the Commish? Go ahead. Just make sure we have someone to replace him that has a clue.

 

This is why you want to fire Bettman? After all the stupid things he's done, this is the last straw? :smilewinkgrin:

 

It's not the rule. You might can argue with the application of it though:

Malkin was clearly not the instigator. The Pen (I forget who) who tried to stuff back the puck after Ozzie made the save started the incident (Ozzie had a wonderful flop didn't he?). Zetterberg got in on the action, then Malkin came in. I don't know how anyone with a straight face can say he was an instigator. Did Zettie and Malkin get things out of hand? of course. But it's not like Zetterberg did nothing to provoke things.

This is a well intentioned but stupid rule on the NHL's part. You don't want goons taking a stick to the throat of an innocent bystander at the end of a 5-0 game. That's one thing. You cannot suspend a player for a game who came in and defended a teammate he felt was being ganged up on (which he was) for an incident he caused (which he did) and which was made worse by Osgood's Oscar losing flop.

Of course, since this is the worst of his sins

 

Tom,

You should have watched the game, man. It was a good one, which you seem to have missed.

The Pittsburgh player jabbed Osgood in the stomach after he had the puck. The Detroit players swarmed him. No penalty was called. Zetterberg was skating away and Malkin caught him from behind. He grabbed him by the back of the sweater. Zetterberg still tried to skate away and Malkin insisted and they got into a fight.

Furthermore, the officials called it an instigator penalty. He should be suspended by the rules. You can't just change the rules when you want to. And if your officials on the ice can be trusted to make the right call, then get them off the ice.

Having said that, I don't want Malkin suspended because I want Detroit to beat them straight up with no excuses. I am not a big hockey fan and if it weren't the Wings, I wouldn't even watch. But I have to say that Bettman is an idiot, hands down the worst commissioner.

 

Larry, I was watching. Best time of the year, and certainly better than anything the NBA can offer. DET has outplayed PIT, but Fleury has been the real star for the Red Wings. He's been their MVP What the Ds have done to Malkin and Syd have been just brutal. They are clearly stymied.

However, I have to correct your narrative which doesn't gel with the replay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFfdXlbV7n0

Zette is nowhere near skating away. In fact, I just watched it three more times and noticed something I hadn't in previous times. It looks like he's actually reaching towards Malkin, though fairly stationary, after the sandwich of the Pen near the crease. I can expect Red Wings fans to believe what they believe, but you must've been watching an entirely different game than I watched and the dozens of replays have caught, my buddy.

According to 47.22, the play must be reviewed and the instigator call can be overturned if evidence presents itself. That's what happened. They didn't change the rule, they just applied it when and where they wanted too. In this rare instance, I think they got it right.

You are correct, sir.

As for officials being trusted, name a sport where the on-the-field officials ARE trusted? Time's up

 

The Waddlers waddled and won! They have made a series out of it now.

 

Tom, friend, I don't know what you are smoking but you should pass it around cuz it's gotta be good stuff. In the original melee after Osgood got stabbed, Zetterberg challenged Talbot. Malkin comes around the back of the net and goes after Z. There are a few punches thrown. But then watch. If you look at about the 20-23 second mark, Z is skating away. His back is to Malkin and Malkin is holding on to him.

I think by and large baseball umpires are fairly well trusted, definitely moreso than other sports. Hockey seems to have the worst rep.

 

I don't watch enough hockey to know, but I doubt that hockey officiating is worse than the NBA.

Other than the goofball umpire who missed a call, badly, in Minnesota last week and then wound up ejecting 2 catchers and 2 managers for far less than I've seen other players/managers get tossed for, I agree.

 

It's called oxygen. Y'all need some? :smilewinkgrin:

Friend, this is the second time you've missed the narrative. Watch the video.

:03 - Osgood is jabbed by Talbott and Ozzie flops. Zettie skates to the left goalpost.
:05 - Zettie and (I believe) Stuart do the malachi crunch on Talbott. small scrum ensues. Malkin is behind the net and skates toward the scrum and nearest Red Wing - Zettie.
:06 - Zettie turns toward Malkin and extends an arm; Malkin tangles with him
:07-:09 - Z and M fight with a ref in between. Zettie gets turned aside a bit from the contact
:10 - Ref gets out of the way (smart) and Z/M continue their melee. around the 20 second mark, Satan gets involved (funny typing that) and then wisely backs away.
at the 1:07 and both the 1:24 mark you clearly see Zettie with Malkin's jersey in hand. If he's skating away, he's doing a poor job of it. Looks like from one angle Zettie grabbed Malkin from the get go.

At the end of the video you see some slo-mo and some iso.

There's just absolutely nothing in here to support either of your narratives. I can appreciate RW fans supporting their team, but the video doesn't lie. Were I Colin Campbell, I'dve overturned the instigation, too. Talbott could've just as easily been tagged, as could've Zetterberg or Stuart. But this was no blind shot. This was hockey. You had a defense of your goalie and someone defending their guy in response. The refs sorted it out. Play on. This is hockey, not tennis.

I think baseball refs get a little more trust, too, but now that's eroding with the HR instant replays. Baseball umps are bound to make more mistakes. They have to make more "calls" than the other refs put together. Outs, balls, strikes, fair/foul...they have their neck out there more than any other official, except for maybe golf (don't laugh, you literally are ruling on every shot. If you don't believe me, be a golf official for one round.)

I don't think the Pens have made this a series yet. Game four is the pivotal game as always. Det goes up 3-1, you can forget it. If we get all nodded up, we have a new series. I expect the D to clamp back down and Fleury to make some mistakes. I still see Det getting this done before a 7th game. I'm vascillating between a five and six game series, though I'm leaning six as I have been.

 

No officiating is worse than the NBA, with the occasional exception of SEC basketball officiating.

 

The truth is, when it comes to the NHL play-offs the ref's tend to give a bit more slack concerning the violation of rules. They let a lot of them go that they wouldn't let go during the regular season--slashing, boarding, elbowing, tripping, etc. Thus at the end of the game, they are certainly not going to call a penalty that is going to give a valuable player a suspension, not in the play-offs. That would be unheard of. These are the play-offs. Like it or not, a player can get away with a few more infractions than he can during the regular season. It is a part of the game.

 

I did. Answer me this. At the :20 mark (which I noticed you skipped), which way is Zetterberg skating with reference to Malkin? How can you deny that he is skating away from him and Malkin is pulling him from behind?

There's no doubt that Z was originally involved when Talbot speared Osgood. There's no doubt that Malkin comes around the back of the goal to go after Z. There's also no doubt that Malkin pursue Z from behind at the :20-:23 mark. After that, Z does fight Malkin. No doubt. But Malkin was the instigaro.

Again, just watch it and answer me this: At the :20-23 mark, which was is Z facing with respect to Malkin?

I am fine with it.

No. Talbot was in the course of play, and Z and Stuart were in response as was Malkin originally. But the aftermath was a different story as you can tell from the video.

I officiate myself several times a week. It isn't that hard. You simply have to know the exceptions, which are the killers. But they rarely come into play, players call penalties on themselves.

 

I may have to amend my statement about NBA officials. I've learned today that the Penguins played for 30 seconds with 6 men on the ice in game 3. How did the officials miss that?

 

Bingo. :thumbs: Like it or not, this is the way it is.

I didn't skip it. I answered it. Go back and read. However, at precisely :20, Zettie has Malkin on the ice, pounding him as Satan wisely backs off. Watch the video. I think you mean early on when Zettie's back is to Malkin briefly (a second or so) which is depicted in slo-mo at around 1:00. Malkin's arm (Which he extended towards Malkin earlier) has hold of Malkin's jersey and is caught under his arm. Malkin's speed and the grabbing motion of the ref who interfered then backed away propeled the two men forward. Zettie is facing away, but by no means intentionally skating away. He has Malkin's sweater in his hand! And Malkin is punching (swinging wildly). How can he be doing this and grabbing Zetterberg all at the same time? Does he have three arms and one of them is invisible? :laugh:

The whole basis of your argument seems to be that Zetterberg is facing away from Malkin. True, for a brief time. But why? Because the Ref's grasp turned him as did Malkin's blows/momentum. Zetterberg admitted to his part in the fight. Is he lying? :smilewinkgrin:

Be sure to watch the entirety from all angles, esp slo-mo. It's telling. If someone wanted to go after Malkin (fine, suspension) for using his stick as a weapon, they have all the video evidence in the world. There's none for what you assert, nor for the instigator penalty.

His jab was at/after the whistle, which is why you could arguably say he was instigating. I don't think one could say so logically, but there's an rgument there just as much as anything.

If you really believed this, how could you assert what you've claimed to "see" in the video?

Typical hockey fight. Which is my point all along for negating the "instigator" penalty.

Well, my contention about golf officiating being hard is the fact that before the players take a swing you have to "rule." Are they talking about club selection between competitors? Are they moving something they shouldn't? Is their address within the rules? Have they altered their club? Is the ball playable? I've done a lot of HS golf, and sometimes they aren't as compliant about calling penalties on themselves. They should be. It's the last real gentleman's game.

Enjoying the convo, friend.

 

I may have watched a different video, now that I think about it. Clearly, after what happens right around the goal, and the stuff between Malkin and Z continues, Z is trying to skate away. He has his back to Malkin and Malkin is holding on to him from behind.

The point was about instigation, not about the fight. Both were involved, but Malkin instigated it. I don't see how you can even question that. He was nowhere near the fracas when it began. He came from behind the goal on the far side to attack Z, and then carried it out into the ice and into the opposite circle. Again, I don't see how in the world you think Malkin wasn't instigating.

I don't know the timing of the whistle.

Most of those things probably aren't policed at all. At the PGA level, they aren't being watched that closely I don't think. HS probably needs it because of the "win at all costs" mentality that infects people.

Me too. I love disagreeing about something that doesn't matter one bit, especially with someone that I like.