Oil and Virgins

Let's look further into this wonderful passage from the book of James.

James 2: 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We cannot say faith alone is what saves. James states it does not.

 

Amen. Most self-proclaimed Christians want to believe that they be "saved" and still have sin as the master of their master. In reality we cannot serve two masters as MA tells us:

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Why wouldn't someone want it to be true that they can live a life of openly rejecting Christ but still enter the Kingdom as Heaven? The only problem is it's not Biblical.


Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.:Fish: :Fish: :Fish:

 

If our entrance into the kingdom of heaven is based upon our works and not our salvation, then our Lord and Savior was lying when he said the only prerequisites were to be born of the Water and of the Spirit.

Our entrance into heaven is not a works based salvation, it is not of works of righteousness which we have done.

 

Once again you are combining two messages. Eternal salvation and the kingdom of the heavens are two different subjects. You are trying to combine what the Bible says keep separate.

You are equating heaven with the kingdom of the heavens. Not the same thing.

 

Yes, I am equating the two together, becuase the Lord Jesus Christ equated the two together.

HoG said our entrance into heaven is by our works... I quoted him in my last post.

His statement is in direct contradiction to that which the Lord told Nicodemus in John chapter 3. It is not works that carry us into the kingdom, but it is being born of the water and the Spirit.

 

SFIC can't seem to separate the two of "kingdom of heaven" and "heaven"

are you saying, J.Jump that they are different? am i getting this?

 

Jesus did not say 'Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter heaven.' He said, 'cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.'

HoG said in the last post of his that one must work to enter the kingdom of heaven.

sfiC is correct in saying works has nothing to do with one entering heaven.

The only work required was accomplished nearly 2000 years ago when Christ died on that rugged cross

 

Well the whole idea of heaven has been messed up and then passed on as church tradition.

When people are speaking of heaven they are speaking of eternity. The church needs to quit teaching that we spend eternity in heaven, because that is just unBiblical.

We spend eternity with God, Who will be on the new earth in the midst of His people. God is not even going to spend eternity in "heaven" as evangelicals exclaim.

And yes you have it right they are two separated messages. Eternal salvation has to do with eternity. The kingdom of the heavens has to do with rulership over the earth, which has nothing to do with eternal salvation.

But for some reason most of Christendom wants to combine these two messages and are therefore destroying both of them in the process.

That's why Christendom can't even come up with a single concensus on what saves a person.

We have to keep these two messages separate, becuase unlike what SFIC Christ Himself kept them separate.

The kingdom of the heavens is not where God currently resides and it is not the place where Jesus Christ ascended.

The kingdom of the heavens is the place where Satan currently rules over the nations with his fallen angels. It is a place where spiritual warfare takes place. It is a place that we can not entertain with our five physical senses, because it is not of this world.

But one day Satan will receive the boot and Christ will remove him from his throne and will take over with His bride.

 

now that i think i completely agree. and is supported by many scripture in the gospels as well as the epistles.

 

Funny, I cannot find a verse in the Bible that tells me satan is on a throne. Can you enlighten us?

 

Exactly. So we see that Jesus wasn't teaching eternal salvation in the Gospel accounts. He was teaching what it took to have a part in this kingdom that would be established in the nation of Israel would repent.

Unfortunately for them they did not repent as a nation. And that means fortunately for us, becuase we now have an opportunity to accept or reject the same message they did.

However the difference between us and them is that we were still in a spiritually dead state. And so in order for us to be put into a mode where we could even understand the message we had to have our spirits made alive by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore we had to be eternally saved (spirits made alive), and when that happens then and only then are we able to even begin to understand the message of the kingdom. Then and only then are we able to accept it or reject it like Israel did.

Therefore the Gospels are relevant to us today, because they tell us about what it takes to have a part in the kingdom.

Very little is ever mentioned about eternal salvation in the NT, because it is the easiest message to deliver and understand.

The majority of the NT is given as instruction for us in regard to entering the kingdom. Because much is involved in that process.

 

Satan is said to be the prince of the air. It has to do with rulership, and rulers set on thrones. To my knowledge and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a verse that you are looking for that word-for-word says Satan is on his throne. Satan is said to be the god of this world.

But when comparing Scripture with Scripture, building precept upon precept and line upon line it is really hard to miss.

You can see this in the type of King Saul and King David.

Saul is a type of Satan and David is the type of Christ. Saul was appointed King of Israel in the beginning, just as Lucifer (Satan after the fall) was appointed ruler over the earth in the beginning.

Saul fell because of rebellion, and Satan fell because of rebellion. David was annionted king and the successor to Saul, but Saul kept the throne for 30 years or so (I may be of on the number of years), eventhough David had been annointed king.

David had to go away and while he was away there were men that were unhappy with Saul's kingdom and aligned themselves with David. David prepared them for places in his kingdom so they would be ready when that day came.

That day came and Saul was removed from the throne and David assumed the throne with his band of faithful trained and ready to go.

That is exactly what is happening today. Christ had to go away and while He is away He is seeking those that will align themselves with Him and receive the traning so that in the day He assumes the throne we will be ready to serve.

You can also see this in Revelation in the crowns. Stephanos are crowns worn by victors, and diademas are crowns worn by people actually ruling.

 

Much is required to enter the kingdom?

Again, you are teaching contrary to the Word of God.

 

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So how does your statement mesh with:

Luke 18 - A [SIZE=-1]R777[/SIZE] ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

You know the commandments

All these things I have kept from my youth

sell [SIZE=-1]R779[/SIZE] all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure [SIZE=-1]R780[/SIZE] in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when he had heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.

Sure looks like it cost this man too much.

 

Lucifer (Satan after the fall) was appointed ruler over the earth in the beginning.

I find nowhere where the Bible says Lucifer was appointed ruler over the earth. As a matter of fact, the Old Testament says he was the of Tyrus (ref. Ezek. 28 & Isa. 14), not the whole earth.

And who appointed him king? I find no verse saying that satan is a king anywhere.

 

Well all I can say is that you can continue to ignore Scripture teaching if you want to. You are like many others that I have run into. You want everything to be spelled out for you in this nice neat little package so they don't have to go digging for any meaning. Everything will just be sitting on the surface so you won't have to get any dirt under your pretty little fingernails.

Well sorry that's not the way the Bible is laid out. Not every single Truth is laid on the surface, but you must WORK to compare Scripture with Scripture, build precept upon precept and line upon line to get ALL of God's Truth.

If understanding God's Word was so easy then EVERYONE would understand it, but we can obviously see that that is not the case.

If you don't want to work at studying Scripture then you will miss out on a LOT of golden nuggets. That's the bottom line. Adam was told that it was by the sweat of his brow that he was going to be able to eat bread.

And it is the same for us. You want to eat the Bread of Life then it will come by the sweat of your brow, not by cherry picking a verse of Scripture here and a verse there.

No work, no reward. No pain, no gain. You know all the sports cliches, well they'll work here so insert your favorite one

 

Jesus knew this man's heart. He knew that the man had pride over his riches. Proverbs tells us that a proud look is one of the seven abominations. Jesus was revealing that pride in that rich young ruler's heart. Christ was showing that we cannot hold onto sin.

Christ was teaching the ruler needed to be repentent of the sin of pride of wealth and material gain.

JJump, have you sold everything that you have and given all the money from those sales to the poor? Christ is showing a principle that we need to deny sin in our lives and yield to Him

 

Nice wrenching of that Scripture! Obviously this man had kept the commandments, because we see that Jesus never rebuked him for saying that he had kept the commandments from the beginning.

Jesus was testing his obedience. He wanted to know if he was going to be obedient. Go sell all your stuff and then come follow me.

And here's another reason your understanding of this verse is incorrect and can not be speaking of eternal salvation. The question the man asked was not how do I receive the gift of eternal life, but how do I inherit aionios life. He didn't ask how to be saved, but he asked how do I inherit this life for the age.

SFIC wouldn't it just be a lot easier to let the text say what the text says instead of having to come up with all these elaborate ways of dancing around the Scriptures to get them to say what you want them to say?

He said go do something and then come follow me and you will inherit aionios life. Works were invovled, which means that eternal salvation was not involved, because Ephesians 2:8-9 says that our works have no part to play in eternal salvation.

So are you going to tell me that this rich man wasn't asked to do a work?

Just let Scripture be Scripture!