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Proof the OT peoples were not regenerate

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005.

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  1. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Do you wish to think this over a little more before you get yourself into any more trouble PL? I am giving you an opportunity here.

    Or will you stick with this claim that born again believers were NOT washed in the blood of Jesus and had NOT had their sins remitted by his ATONEMENT?
     
    #21 Ben Elohim, Feb 26, 2005
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I think you need to think it over. I have never denied that born again believers were not washed in the blood of Jesus and had their sins remitted by his atonement. You are not reading carefully.

    You are the one getting in trouble by this constant harangue with no substance. Take the time you are using to post here and study the Bible with it. It will be more profitable. And don't misread what I say.

    OT believers were not washed in the blood of Christ in teh OT. It had not yet been shed. They are forgiven on the basis of Christ's sacrifice, but the animals were the OT picture of that. See how simple that was?
     
    #22 Pastor Larry, Feb 26, 2005
  3. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    So now we have born again believers who were NOT washed in the blood of Jesus and had their sins washed away.

    I do wonder PL, if you see what is going to happen next?

    Do you not yet understand the absurdity of claiming someone was born again but did not have their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus? Do you wish to think it over some more or shall we proceed?
     
    #23 Ben Elohim, Feb 26, 2005
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    You obviously haven't studied this much. This is so amazingly simple. OT believers were not washed in teh blood of Christ. It was impossible for such a thing. Yet they were clearly regenerated followers of God. Their sins were covered by the blood of animals until the time of Christ's death.

    You seem so untaught. What has been your theological influences in your life? Are you a new follower of Christ? I am seriously asking. I find it hard to imagine these kinds of arguments coming from someone with even a rudimentary teaching on the things of Scripture. What has been your influence?&gt;
     
    #24 Pastor Larry, Feb 26, 2005
  5. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    PL: You obviously haven't studied this much. This is so amazingly simple. OT believers were not washed in teh blood of Christ. It was impossible for such a thing. Yet they were clearly regenerated followers of God. Their sins were covered by the blood of animals until the time of Christ's death.

    BE: Clearly huh?

    I do wonder PL, if you see what is going to happen next?

    Do you not yet understand the absurdity of claiming someone was born again but did not have their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus? Do you wish to think it over some more or shall we proceed?

    Demonizing others is not going to get you out of the huge predicament you have gotten yourself into PL.
     
    #25 Ben Elohim, Feb 26, 2005
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I am not in a predicament. You have not studied this much if you really believe what you seem to be saying here.
     
    #26 Pastor Larry, Feb 26, 2005
  7. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Do you not yet understand the absurdity of claiming someone was born again but did not have their sins washed away?
     
    #27 Ben Elohim, Feb 26, 2005
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    It's in the Bible. How are sins washed away by blood that doesn't even exist yet, much less have been shed? Talk about absurd, and you didn't even think about it apparently.
     
    #28 Pastor Larry, Feb 26, 2005
  9. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    I just want to make sure of your position Larry. It is clear that you are insisting that it is possible to be born again yet not have your sins washed away.

    Are you sure you don't want to check your Bible just one more time before I proceed?
     
    #29 Ben Elohim, Feb 26, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    If the Old Testament Saints were not born again I wonder what happened to them when they died. Jesus Christ tells us very clearly in John 3:3 ....Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    So where does that leave the Old Testament Saints. Perhaps there is a Purgatory or Limbo after all and we Baptists don't know about it. But then that leaves us a problem with Enoch and Elijah. Scripture tells us that in Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Furthermore, Scripture tells us in 2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

    So it would appear that Elijah is in Heaven with God, Enoch is with God somewhere, and the remainder of the Old Testament Saints are - God knows where. But since we are told they were not regenerate they will never make it into the Kingdom of God, that is unless they are all blind. Jesus Christ only said the regenerate cannot see the Kingdom of God. So maybe they have a chance after all. But does God leave the Salvation of His own to chance?

    Finally I am struck, not literally, by two problems with some of the posts on this thread and others initiated by Ben Elohim.

    1. Some people apparently think the Bible is a cookbook about Salvation. You know, read them the Roman Road and they are saved.
    2.Others seem to forget that obedience to God is an indication of Salvation under both the Old and New Covenants.
     
    #30 OldRegular, Feb 27, 2005
  11. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    There can only be one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. If there was a way for old testament believers to be saved then what way was it? If it was by the Law. Then how were they justified?

    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Calvinist claim faith in God then but with out Christ there could be no Grace.

    Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    So how did the OT believers get the grace needed for Salvation?

    This not to say that the OT believers were lost but held captive until the atonement had been paid. Yet they were still not saved before Christ.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
    #31 ILUVLIGHT, Feb 28, 2005
  12. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    ILUVLIGHT.

    Before Christ? What was before Christ?
    So you say ...the OT believers... What did they believe in if it was not Christ? Faith based on something other than Jesus?

    johnp.
     
    #32 johnp., Feb 28, 2005
  13. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    :cool:
     
    #33 johnp., Feb 28, 2005
  14. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi JohnP;
    Address the passages or can you? :D
     
    #34 ILUVLIGHT, Feb 28, 2005
  15. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    If the Old Testament Saints were not born again I wonder what happened to them when they died. Jesus Christ tells us very clearly in John 3:3 ....Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, I imagine some friends and relatives came along and buried them. Then this guy named Jesus came along to save them from their sins around AD 30. Then their sins were forgiven (Mt 1:23; Heb 9:15). And Jesus set the captives free. Yay.

    And these OT guys are gonna be born out of the dead at the resurrection of the dead by Jesus the firstBORN out of the dead.

    Nope.

    I wonder where and how God took him? I know... just what you are gonna imagine up and tell me right?

    Actually it says "the heavens." That's why they went a lookin fer him. They figured he was coming back down but never did. Wonder where he went? I know... wherever you imagine he went right? And that is why the Jews expected Elijah to also return.

    If you really want to know where he went just ask. Some people do know. Ask yourself where Jesus was for those 40 days after his resurrection when he was not appearing to everyone and before he ascended to heaven. That's your first clue.

    Of course, none of this has any bearing on the question at all but it was fun anyway.

    Seems to be a problem here and you seem to be contradicting the Lord of the heavens and earth.

    " No one has ascended into heaven" (John 3:13). Seems you are wrong and Jesus is right.

    You really don't know?

    Well those who do not know the Scriptures might think so. But those who understand that Jesus' resurrection is a birth out of the dead also realize that our resurrections is a new birth too. You didn't know that did you? Its in your Bible there.

    Maybe other people have thought this out far far better than you and are miles ahead of you. You might want to think about that.

    Um no, he parts the Red Sea and sorta expects them to actually walk across it. He sure is demanding isn't he?

    [quote[
    Finally I am struck, not literally, by two problems with some of the posts on this thread and others initiated by Ben Elohim.

    1. Some people apparently think the Bible is a cookbook about Salvation. You know, read them the Roman Road and they are saved.
    [/quote]

    Wonder who that is?

    Some people think faith in God and obedience to God are two different things because they lack understanding.

    But that is because they have been taught all kinds of crazy things.
     
    #35 Ben Elohim, Mar 3, 2005
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