Prove it.

HP: My bad. I am sorry.

 

HP: I would agree.

Here is a really strange twist. Along comes John Wesley and tries to distance himself from the determinism of Calvinism, but still maintains the doctrine of original sin is true, minus any guilt on the account of it. Then he cannot figure out why, even under intense study, that he is dangerously “far too close to Calvinism.” I certainly can tell him why, thanks to some other men of God that went before men that were faithful in passing on truth of the matter to me. Certainly I have not discovered anything on my own. I owe a debt of gratitude to many gone on before me. :thumbs:

 

I realize that you may not understand it but you have espoused dispensational doctrine. All men are saved the same way, through faith in a risen Christ, this includes O.T. saints. No man comes to God except through the Son, this is no different for O.T. saints. Was Christ saying people had to be saved through Him or through the law?

 

Exactly, man is born with a sin nature but not born with sin.

 

So answer the question, was Christ while living preaching the law or himself? And how does that change faith for the rest of us, what difference does it make if you're looking forward or backward. Salvation has always been the same. Hebrews 11 can not be any clearer.



Hebrews 11:24-26

24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of the Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

The was added here to correct the KJV.

 

HP: If you have no fellowship or life, ye are or at least in the end shall be, none of His. Here again you, as do many others, take a clear condition set in the Scripture by God, and explain it away so as not to upset your firmly entrenched presupposition of OSAS. I believe you do it to the destruction of the truth God is trying to convey.
Quote:
HP: If one commits sins subsequent to forgiveness, one needs to fulfill the conditions for forgiveness just as one did when they were saved. Repent, do ones ‘first works,’ (DO YOU HEAR THAT?? “FIRST WORKS.”) and turn away from ones sins. Make for yourself a new heart. Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

HP: I am not a Catholic and will let them present their own ideas. I will tell you that upon the authority of the Word of God, if a righteous man or women turns from their righteousness and refuses to repent, they will die in their sins. Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

HP: Where have I ever stated or implied that?? We are given a clean slate but have the righteousness of Christ applied to our hearts via the forgiveness of sins that are past. “Old things are washed away and behold all things are become new.” We are made righteous in Christ. It is our duty subsequently to walk in the light as He is in the light. If we fail to do that, we are commanded to repent and do our first ‘works’ over again. How hard is that to understand? Just as if one receives a pardon, they are polaced back in a right relationship to the law. IF they go back and commit new violations of the law, will thei past pardon cover them for the new violations? Neither will ones past forgiveness, according to Scripture, cover for sins returned to.

HP: It is the slate of PAST SINS that is taken away Ann, not the slate of any future acts of disobedience or rebellion. Ro 3:25 “ Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;”

I cannot help it. I am tempted to ask if you believe the Word of God and if it is true, and a few other questions that have been asked of myself on this board.

HP: Once again you destroy the Word of God by failure to add the condition God wrote in that verse. You do it to the detriment of the truth. I will post the condition in that verse for your edification and instruction: “WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.”

HP: Praising God is great, but praise does not, nor will it ever, negate the clearly stated conditions you seem to simply desire to go away. Your praise does not change the Word of God.

 

And how do you explain:

Hebrews 11:24-26


24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.



John 3:7-11

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


Mainly I want you to explain to me how is it that Christ was shocked that Nicodemus did not know that he needed to be born OF THE SPIRIT?
I'll ask you the same thing, what salvation was Christ preaching? I really wish you and Amy would address the salvation by faith spoken of in Hebrews 11.

 

As HP has suggested, your view of the Atonement is somewhat skewed and once you, like myself once, understands exactly why God sent His Son to die for the sins of the world, you’ll begin to better understand what salvation is and how salvation works in the life of a Christian (and I don’t say this to take a jab at your understanding nor am I even suggesting that you’re not saved).

Personally, now as an Orthodox Christian, who now has a somewhat better understanding of our salvation and someone who now doesn’t hold to the OSAS, actually feels better about my salvation than I did before. I’m no longer caught up in the idea that all I had to do was repeat a prayer and sit back and relax until the end.

In XC
-

 

What if one is neither.
1. I am not a "calvanist" since no such thing.
2. I am not a "Calvinist" either, which is probably what you meant.

3. I am not an armenian: a member of a people dwelling chiefly in Armenia and neighboring areas (as Turkey or Azerbaijan) (Merrian Webster dictionary)
4. Neither am I an Arminian, which is probably what you meant.

I believe the Bible but I do not subscribe fully to either one of these systems of theology. I am neither. The Bible is my sole rule of faith and order, and that will I stand by.

 

[quot=Heavenly Pilgrim;1394001]

You said:

Amy said

You said:

[/quote]It sounds like you believe in RCC. What if the priest doesn't get there before extreme unction just before you die of a heart attack or automobile accident, before you have a chance to confess your sin. Then you will die with that mortal sin on your soul and go to Hell.
The same theology HP. If you suddenly die with unconfessed sin, without a chance to repent of it, you will spend an eternity in Hell. You have no assurance of salvation. You say that one must repent first in order for Christ to cleanse you. But what if you don't have that chance? What then? You have no hope, just like the RC. Your belief is no different.

 

The trees not bearing fruit are not cut down until Christ returns at the day of the Lord. Those "Christians" who have no fruit along with Christ rejecting Jews will be cast into Hell. Lots of people will be thrown into Hell, some will include those who said a prayer trusting some silly notion that God was now forced to let them in Heaven. Faith is not a thought, faith is an action.

"Dispensationalism is a Protestant evangelical theology and interpretive framework for understanding the overall flow of the Bible. Rooted in the writings of John Nelson Darby, the term derives from the concept of a "dispensation" or administration referring to a series of chronologically successive dispensations that emphasize certain Biblical covenants"


When you start implying that men were saved by the old covenant you become a dispensationalist. There was no "transitional time" when Christ was alive, that is dispensationalism.

 

Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire

 

HP: It does not, nor would it have to, say that any believer will be cut down. It simply sets forth the possibility that one that was a believer but turned from that belief, could be. A believer in the end will only be those that remain faithful to the end. All others will never have believed or believed but turned from that belief in disobedience. No one that is a believer and remains faithful will ever be cut off.

True believers continue in obedience, they are not simply those that believed and then turned from it and as such were cut off.


Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;