Regeneration

If any are serious minded about dealing with Scriptures, I will be happy to reply in kind.

 

Artimaeus:

The Scriptures declare, not all men have faith (2Thes 3:2). Is it left with God to grant faith as He will? or is it left with man to decide if he is to have faith?

2 Thessalonians 3:2 (KJV) And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Certainly, one must have faith to be saved. As I have said, and as its been shown with Scriptural support, I don’t think that regeneration is a result of faith, but rather, faith is of the operation of God, accomplished with regeneration.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik

 

Artimaeus:

Your response to the proclamation of the gospel is one of two things, 1st, either you will believe, or 2nd, you will not believe. Knowing that one is accepted in the beloved is reason for dealing with these things. A proper understanding of the Scriptures regarding salvation results in a proper reason for hope. Finding what the Scriptures say is our way of discovering what God has done regarding salvation.

This is where men are apart from God's grace:
Romans 1:18 (KJV) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Is it something man does on his own, or is the faith we are to be concerned with a gift a God? I think these are very important matters. There is evidence that is to be examined for one to discover if the have been born again. There is new life, and just as sure as a person knows they were born the first time, so can they know they have been born the second time. The new life has characteristics, and can be examined, so a man is told, Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If I have been wrong about these things, then I would like to be shown from Scripture, those Scriptures being explained in light of other Scripture, spiritual compared with spiritual.

From those that hold the view, I would like to see a reason from Scripture, for the notion faith is the operative, and that faith results in regeneration.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio

 

It is obvious, two people can quote the very same passage of Scripture or say the very same words in the very same order and yet what those two men intend to be understood is vastly different. It is needful to give interpretation, for without giving the sense, what is the hearer to understand?

Nehemiah 8:8 (KJV) So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

1 Corinthians 14:8 (KJV) For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

 

Any faith the is not a result of the work of the Holy Spirit is a false faith. One might have knowledge of the identity of God, and recognize His authority, the devils do as much, but such a belief has nothing to do with salvation. The Scriptures declare, Ye must be born again. It seems decisional regeneration insists on doing things apart from the work of God, while couching words in Scriptural terms, but let it be known, the means incorporated accomplish the end they were designed to accomplish. Decisional regeneration has not been shown to be a Bible doctrine. Faith is of the operation of God, if it be true faith, and regeneration is of God’s will, man not able to resist, as John 1:13 clearly shows.

I have seen nothing from Scripture that says any different. All that has been offered is words that show there are some that do not like to have it that way, and that like to toss out a straw man of their own mind called Calvinism to rail about. If you have anything to show why you reject what has been shown from the Scriptures, then it seems now would be a time to present it.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio

 

As I understand the Scriptures, the Lord does not simply attempt to save His people, He actually does save them (Matt 1:21). Faith, our believing, is a gift of God (John 1:13; 6:28-29; Acts 13:48; 18:27; Rom 3:22; 9:16, 18, 22; 10:17; 12:3; Gal 2:16,20; 5:22; Eph 1:19; 2:8; Phil 1:29; Heb 12:2; Tit 3:5), faith a fruit of the Spirit wrought in man by the operation of God. Unless a man is born of the Spirit of God there is no such faith.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik

 

Never have I encountered a man that could not be saved. Regeneration is of God’s will, man not able to resist, as John 1:13 clearly shows.

 

Not of works, lest any man should boast, yet men boast of there own faith, nothing to do with God, never mind that faith is a work, for some don’t like it to be that way. Yet what does John 6:29 say but that faith is a work. It is clear enough, it is the work of God yet some will not accept that for they don’t like it to be that way. It is man’s work they say, but they claim it is not a work because they do not like the Bible the way it is written. After all they have liked it to be there work for years now and others have followed along.

Faith is the gift of God to man as Ephesians 2:8 clearly shows, therefore faith is not the gift of man to God.

If salvation depends upon foreseen faith, God does not first choose man but man first chooses God. John 15:16 Another verse of Scripture is to be ignored and explained away for the satisfaction of those that do not like the Book as it is written.

I hoped to be able to see some defense for the decisional regeneration but it seems there is none, just complaining , so perhaps another time.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
June 23, 2005

 

OldRegular,

The Dagg book does look interesting.

DAGG (J. L.) Manual of Theology Harrisonburg Virginia Gano Books 1990 379pp

By grace,
Bob Krajcik

 

Amazon has two different theology books of Dagg.

Which one do you have?

Manual of Theology -- by John L. Dagg; Hardcover

Manual of Theology Christian Doctrine Church Order (Baptist Tradition) -- by John L. Dagg; Hardcover

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=br_ss_hs/002-1692996-5816813?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dstripbooks%3Arelevance-above%26dispatch%3Dsearch%26results-process% 3Dbin&field-keywords=dagg&Go.x=15&Go.y=13

 

Artimaeus:

Taking into consideration that you speak of salvation first of all being accomplished by the consent of man, rather than the direct decree of God, it is understandable that you reject what I have said. What I have said is based on God having intended to certainly save, deliver, purge and wash, His people, and to make them holy, fruitful, and acceptable. His people are drawn to Christ and they actually come to Christ. The elect of God are the object of God’s plan of salvation, and God actually does save them. The elect were chosen in Christ by the Father before the foundation of the earth. Regeneration has significance in that the dead are made alive. Before the new birth all are at enmity with God, and as such do not cooperate with God in matters of salvation (1Cor 2:14). Eternal life comes from the death of Christ, and actually does procure the salvation of His people, His people being regenerated, all His people, even as it is simply shown in Matthew 1:21 saying, He shall save his people from their sins. God intended to save his people, and all His people, those chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, shall be saved.

You even admit faith is a work. No, I did not miss the whole point. I said, “Not of works, lest any man should boast . . . never mind that faith is a work, for some don’t like it to be that way. Yet what does John 6:29 say but that faith is a work. It is clear enough....” While you try to assign this work to obscurity, by saying it is a spiritual work, it is nevertheless a work, and I must say the Scriptures are clear on that (John 6:29; 1Thes 1:3; 2Thes 1:11).

Saving faith is a spiritual work, and is not the pivotal point as far as salvation is concerned. An essential element is that Christ died for the sheep, and they certainly shall be saved. The elect are the objects of salvation, and they all shall be saved. The efficient cause of salvation is regeneration, and the elect are the objects of regeneration. The elect are chosen not based on foreseen faith but instead faith is the response of their being elect. There is the point that separates us, and I find no room for reconciliation between the two beliefs.

Election is not based on foreseen faith, man is not the cause, as it is written, “(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.”

Of coarse we each understand the verses different because you start with man as the efficient cause, and I start with God as the efficient cause. You say faith is spiritual in nature, and I would say as much. The Scriptures say the natural man receives not of the Spirit of God (2Cor 2:14). Natural man is not going to receive of the things of God, because they are spiritually discerned. Man must be born again, and that is an act of God’s will, not man’s, for the natural man does not understand the things of God, does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Such things as are spiritual in nature are foolishness to unsaved men, and they are at enmity towards God (Rom 8:7).

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Saving faith is deliberately accomplished in man by the operation of God. Man must be born again, that by the decree of God. Regeneration is not based on the will of man, man would refuse God. With regeneration faith is a response, accomplished in man by the operation of God. Along with regeneration comes conversion, faith, and eternal life. Saving faith is not about simply believing what is said, even the devils do that, but by saving faith one acknowledges what Christ has accomplished for them, and so there is trust. Claiming man’s faith is ultimately the meritorious ground of salvation is to claim salvation by works. Faith is a work (John 6:29; 1Thes 1:3; 2Thes 1:11). Salvation is of the Lord, not of works lest any man should boast.

You make salvation dependent on man; while I say the efficient cause of salvation is God’s will that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. Salvation is of the Lord.

You have failed to show a reason for your claim that I have misunderstood and taken out of context Ephesians 2:8. Ephesians 2:8 still says what it says and it still means what it says. Ephesians 2:8 says, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Man’s will is contrary to God before they are born again, so therefore man’s will is not directed towards God to earn salvation. We have no gift to give God towards accomplishing salvation. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, there is none righteousness, no not one, all have gone astray, none seek after God, and so forth. Man has no righteousness to direct towards God that earns or allows salvation. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

If a man has faith, is trusting, coming to Christ, they are saved, for no lost man has faith, no lost man is trusting and is coming to Christ. Such things are spiritual exercises and the natural man sees such things as foolishness. All these exercises are accomplished by the result of the new birth or as also called, regeneration (John 1:13).

Before the new birth, man is at enmity with God, and after the new birth man as a new creature works out his salvation. There are no works prior to regeneration and no works of man results in regeneration, and certainly the unregenerate performs nothing spiritual in nature that man would thus be saved. Before the new birth man’s will is opposed to the will of God, and after the new birth the will is inclined towards God and the things of God. It is after regeneration that a man is inclined towards God and works out the salvation that has been accomplished. That new state of being is described as follows: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man. Man before the new birth is described as follows: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Never is man given a task that they might earn salvation. Salvation is the gift of God. With regeneration is the effectual call (John 6:45; 10:27), faith accomplished in man by the operation of God, and eternal life received, a new creature created, according to the decree of God’s election. The elect are the objects of salvation, and it is them that God shall save. The new birth is essential, and that wholly by the will of God (John 1:13). When one is Born Again, there is a new creation, a new creature, that has faith, trust, and eternal life (John 10:28). Christ shall save His people.

John 1:13 (KJV) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio
June 29, 2005