Saved Catholics?

Quoted by Charles Meadows: "Of course there are Catholics who are saved.
Think about it...
In order to be saved we must believe and accept that Jesus died for our sins. Belonging to a denomination or not belonging to a denomination are not criteria." End quote

Charles, Please read the rest of the thread. Yes. Jesus died for our sins. Which Jesus? The Jesus of the RCC is not the same Jesus of the bible. If all the RCC required for salvation was faith in Christ, you may be correct. But it is not.

First of all you have to believe and accept the Christ of the bible and His finished work on the cross. Not some little christ living in a tin box in back of the alter ready to be sacrificed at every mass. You can say all the right things about the wrong christ and still be lost.

To be saved, a sinner must understand their lost condition and their inability to find salvation outside of Christ. This is not taught in the RCC. When you sin, you must go to confession and repent to a sinner (priest). He has the power to forgive sin.?.? He will then give you pennance to do. (atonement for sins). Usually a number of Hail Marys etc. (Isnt there only one mediator? Why would we ever pray to Mary?) When the Roman Catholic dies they find that their priest could not forgive all of their sins and their pennance was insufficient. Now they must spend countless years in Purgatory. ( a place where you continue to pay for your own sins).

How miserable and frightening the time of death must be for the Roman Catholic. He never knows if he did enough to pay for his sins or how long he will have to SUFFER in Purgatory. Oh, family and friends can attempt to shorten the time a loved one spends in Purgatory. There is a great reserve of mercy and grace that can be purchased for the deceased incrementally. These increments are called indulgences. You still never know how much time you have taken off your loved ones sentance.

Quoted by Charles Meadows: "The logical fundamentalist retort here will be something along the lines of, "How could someone be saved a REMAIN in a system like catholicism?" End quote

They can't. If they are truly saved the truth will make them free. God commands us to come out of her. We are taught that if we seek the truth we will find it. The Good Shepherd does not leave His lost sheep behind. When He finds one He brings it into His flock.

Quoted by Charles Meadows:"I have heard priests who preached the gospel - and those who preached mariolatry! It is very possible for one to attend a catholic church (which in this case would certainly be a church where the priest actually preached the gospel) and be saved." End quote

If the priest understood the gospel, he wouldn't be a priest. There is only one priest and that is Jesus. He is a false priest, under a false system, worshipping a false christ in a false church. If a person did get saved because they understood and actually repented, they COULD NOT remain in that cesspool of satanic doctrine.

Quoted by Charles Meadows: "Anyone who suggests that being a member of a nonfundamentalist denomination precludes salvation by definition denies that faith in Jesus alone can save." End quote

Never even eluded to that statement. Baptists are not the only ones with the keys to heaven. There are even baptists that are unsaved. There are many denominations out there that do preach the gospel and their people are saved.

There are certain religions that if their doctrines are believed, their followers will die and go to hell. Catholicisim, Mormonisim, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hinduisim, Moonies, Krishna's , Bahi, Islam, just to name a few.

Satan comes as an angel of light! He has ministers of righteousness. He is religious and seeks to deceive! The bible says He walks around like a lion seeking whom he may DEVOUR.

Don't take this lightly. If you know a system to be false, consider it to be deadly. Don't think for a minute that Satan allows christians to play in his back yard without being burnt!

 

[quote=StraightAndNarrow]How do you interpret "Faith without works is dead?"[/quote]

We work out of a greatful heart. We know we are saved by faith and that faith is manifested by fruit.(works). If you have no works, how real can your faith be?

You may ask: What about those folks that don't have time left to work because of illness or impending death. Just like the thief on the cross. We are justified by faith in the shed blood of Christ.

Quoted by:FundamentalOnly! Although I am a strict Baptist in practice and belief, I dont judge others.


Since God is our only judge, not us, why do we condem our brother? Are you not modern Pharisees? Thank you and God Bless you all.End quote

I don't condemn anyone. We should ALWAYS be ready to give answer for our faith. We can, do and should judge religious systems. We have the bible and if a religion is so corrupt that it is obviously anti-christ, we have an obligation to judge and expose it.

Quoted by Charles Meadows: Soulman's statement would be right if every catholic followed the vatican 100% on every belief. But that is not the case. There is heterogeneity in catholic churches and congregations. And as we said the issue here is not whether or not RCC doctrine has "enough gospel" to offer salvation but whether or not there are Christians in the RCC.

As a former catholic I drifted away into agnosticism in my teen years. When I began to feel the terrible God-shaped void in me I went looking. Reading the Bible I discovered that RCC doctrine deviated from biblical Christianity in too many places. My mother, still a practicing catholic, said something like this to me:

"I am catholic because it's all I've ever known. I'm sure that we catholics are not right in everything - and I know that it is Jesus who can save and not the rituals of the mass. I guess I find the mass and the catholic worship service respectful and worshipful - and I feel at home in that. But I know that the Pope and the priests are just people like the rest of us and are wrong sometimes. I'm just glad you've come back to believing in Jesus again."

Unfortunately it is the minority of catholics who have such a stance - but there are some.

So I agree with the sentiment that the formal RCC doctrine is bad - and when followed 100% does not contain the proper gospel. But there are some people and even some priests in the catholic church who are Christian first and catholic second - and if they believe that Jesus saved them then the fact that they have a more ritualistic worship service does not preclude salvation.End quote

Where is the cut off point Charles? How much belief in a false religion is ok? Sounds like your mom is a sweet lady and practicle. I hope she is saved. I don't judge individuals salvation.

This thread is about saved people staying in a satanically corrupt system. We have instructions from God Himself to seek the truth. To worship Him in Spirit and in truth. He says we will know the truth and the truth will set us free. He tells us to come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing. He tells us that the blind shall lead the blind and they will both fall into the pit. People may have a form of Godliness, but not according to knowledge.

It may take some time to learn enough truth to make a decision to leave but once God saves a person you belong to Him. He will not let His precious child live in a system whose soul purpose is to confuse people and hide the true road to heaven.

 

Charles, The RCC is a monolithic entity in many ways. They answer to one man.(the pope), They have a head quarters, They have chatachisims that lay outthe teachings of the church.

You say there are some that preach the gospel. Mabey so. But Satan is a master. If he can preach the gospel and surround it with error, he still wins. If a person gets saved in the RCC, it is totally independant of her teachings. In fact if you were to take your salvation experience to your priest it would be picked apart and devoured as catholics are not saved by grace. They just say they are.

I know of NO catholic churches where a true christian can practice his or her faith. Their teachings are way too opposed to the bible. The only christians that may be in the RCC for a period are new ones trying to find their way out.

 

Quoted by Charles Meadows: "With this pronouncement you take too much liberty. The RCC is "ruled" by one man. But that one man is not in control of the salvation of anyone - that is an individual decision". End quote

The pope is the vicar of Christ on earth. He claims to be Christ on earth. I would dare to say that he thinks he is in control of peoples salvation.

Quote:"I know several catholics who definitely believe that Jesus died for them and who simply like the solemnity of the catholic service, finding it respectful to God." Ed quote

The solemnity of the catholic service, finding it respectful to God?? The catholic service may feel that way to the ignorant but it is anything but respectful to God. The mass is totally blasphemous to God as well as the whole religion. That is what the bible teaches.

Quote: "I agree that no believer will remain in a church where Mary or saints are worshipped. But there are RCC churches which are actually Christian churches (albeit few) in which believers who are accustomed to catholic worship services and find them respectful to God may remain." End quote

You say there are actually RCC churches that are christian. That is only your opinion. If you understand RCC teachings you will find that it is not even christian. It is anti-christ in it's teachings. You will not find salvation taught within the walls of any RCC if it follows the tenants of catholicisim. They teach another gospel. A gospel of works and personal atonement for sins. They are accursed according to the scriptures.

As far as God respecting aspects of RCC worship services in light of the bible, it is untrue. It would be difficult to be more disrespectful to God.

The reason I say a real christian cannot remain in a Roman catholic church after comming to the truth is because they would be like oil and water. They don't mix. A christian has been purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ. His sins are fully forgiven. He has the Holy Spirit living within him. We are either OWNED by satan or Christ. If we are God's we will not ignorantly and foolishly stay in a system that is clearly satanic. The bible teaches that in the end false religion will be destroyed.

A christian must seek the truth in order to find it. But God teaches through the scriptures that we will find it and it will make us free. God requires more than mere worship. He requires us to worship Him in spirit and in truth.

I do not go too far in asserting that a christian cannot remain in the RCC. That is biblical! There are millions of dear Roman catholics' that need to hear the truth. A person that stays with no regard for the truth of God's Word is probably unsaved having a form of godliness but not according to knowledge. Religious but lost. Blind being led by the blind. They will cry out to God: Lord, Lord we have prophesied in your name only to hear Him say: Depart from me. I never knew you. Nice people, religious people, lost people. I do not judge these people. I would love to see them saved. I judge their religion and their unwillingness to come out of a wicked system having no love for the truth. The bible teaches that such are not saved.

If you think you know real christians in the RCC, think again. That is NOT what the bible teaches. It is only what you think!

 

Quoted by Charles Meadows: "I wa Catholic for 20 years - and I DO know real Christians in the RCC." End quote

All your being a catholic for 20 years accomplished for you was to keep you ignorant of the truth. You admit the RCC is warped but can't seem to accept the fact that it is anti - christian.

Quote:"Catholicism is a warped denomination for sure. But denomination does not equal salvation."End quote

Catholicisim is not a denomination. Denominations are made up of protestants. Those who protested the catholic church. You are however correct when you say ones church affiliation does not equal salvation. If you are in a church that preaches the truth, you can be saved there. You can be saved by reading your bible. But a person CANNOT be saved through the preaching at the RCC. True salvation is not within it's doctrinal make up. They may say some of the right things but as stated before, they mix works with faith and don't even worship the Christ of the bible.

Quote:"Does going to a baptist church mean he/she is automatically better?" End quote

C'mon Charles! You know as well as I that there are many churches that call themselves Baptist that are apostate. You don't listen or pay attention to what is being said. I have said right along that a person can be saved in any church that preaches the true gospel. The RCC does not.

You think that the RCC mass is respectful to God! It is one of the most wicked and blasphemous ceremonies on the planet. It is designed to destroy your soul and to be an insult to God!You have no basis other than your opinions and assumptions that there are saved people in the RCC. I have explained biblically and from RCC doctrine that you are wrong. I said before, if there are christians in the RCC it is only because they are finding their way out. A blood bought, Christ owned , child of God WILL NOT remain and be contented with the evil, wicked teachings of the RCC, whose only goal is to see people in hell. Not everyone in the RCC knows the extent of their churches wickedness and that is sad. Yet you continue to aimlessly argue your point.

If you knew your bible and what your former church taught, we would not be having this conversation.

I read your profile. Although you claim to be a baptist, you also claim to be methodist, catholic and I think lutheren. That tells me that you are more than likely ecumenical. Which means you have no problem worshipping with any denomination. Doctrine isn't important. We should knock down the walls of division and win the world for Christ. This movement is also known as the Catholic charasmatic movement. It has it's roots in catholicisim.

The mother church has seen fit to accept back into it's fold all of her former rebellious children (protestants). While ecumenical churches make all the concessions doctrinally and even apologize for their past wanderings, all the RC does is say a few of the right things, speak in tounges and see visions.(false christ..angel of light) They do not change one teaching in their doctrine. The denominations involved in this movement make all the changes.

If the early christians could witness this love puke fest they would roll over in their graves. Protestants have NOTHING to apologize for. The RCC killed over 59 million christians during the dark ages in the so called name of jesus because they wouldn't convert to catholicisim.

Violence didn't work so now it is love and acceptance at the cost of the truth. How sad. God says he will send a delusion that they shall believe a lie. The bible says they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears. They will continue to learn and never come to the knowledge of the truth. Why????? Because they don't want the truth. People are satisfied to have it their own way (Burger King Theology). They could care less what God actually says as long as they are comfortable.

Because of this they will believe the lie and will successfully join together and form the one false religion spoken of as the whore of babylon in the book of Revelation. I believe this to be the RCC. Why do I draw this conclusion? The bible says the whore is drunk with the blood of the saints. This whore represents the last days religious system on earth. The RCC is the only religion that ever killed millions upon millions of people in the name of Christ. (drunk on the blood of the saints). Look at what is happening! The worlds religions are uniting and this is happening.

So Charles... It doesn't matter what you believe. It's what God says that counts!!

Real christians must remain seperate. When it comes to false doctrine we must remain intolerable. We must worship in Spirit AND truth!!

 

Sorry Charles. I made a mistake when quoting from your profile. It was: Baptist, Methodist, Catholic

 

Charles,
You refuse to address any of the doctrinal issues I have brought to you. You choose instead to pass it off as IFB lore. You obviously are not interested in placing the truth of God's word first. You simply wish to assume that Jesus tip toes through the tulips and saves everyone no matter what they believe. That is not biblical and neither is your argument that a christian can function in the RCC. Until you read God's word and see that religion cannot get people to heaven you will not understand. God ordained the church. The RCC has NO part in that.

Quoted by Charles Meadows:"As a child I was taught that Jesus was born of a virgin, died for our sins, and rose bodily on the third day victorious over the grave. He reigns now and will come again in final judgment.

That doesn't sound too satanic to me." End quote

What about them telling you that the host and wine actually become the literal blood and body of Christ? (Transubstantiation) They call the mass an unbloody sacrifice. What about purgatory? What about pennance? What about confession to a man? What about idol worship. What about taking the 2nd commandment out of the bible? What about indulgences? What about celebacie? What about nuns not marrying?

The whole real reason the RCC doesn't want their clergy married is because they would have to support their families. Instead the clergy is a magnet for homosexuals and pedophiles. They brush it off like it is a few. What about the dead babies found under churches as a result of priests and nuns affairs?

I have studied catholicisim and I have studied the bible. They are opposite. As I said, they may say the right things at times, but they are speaking of A DIFFERENT CHRIST! He doesn't save. He is a phoney. Anybody that believes the RCC doctrines will die and go to hell according to the scriptures. .

The scriptures are the final authority. Read them!