Self Esteem

Matt. 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

May God so bless His precious children, and lead us into humility, service, and His love for others.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

I am convinced the problem is not a lack of self-esteem--a low view of oneself but rather too high a view of oneself.
I disagree slightly. While it is true that Satan wins when we think we're so important that we don't need God, equally as destructive (if not moreso) is Satan's tool of us thinking that we are so unimportant to God that he doesn't want anything to do with us. Hence, lack of self esteem. The biblical truch is, we ARE important to God. We are valued in His eyes. We AREN'T junk. Is it more befitting to tell a bald man he's worthless because he has no hair, or to tell him that he's special because God doesn't put marble tops on cheap furniture? Hair or not, we're all bald underneath, so we better think about that .

God made us in His image and declared us good, but that was when we were free from sin.
God declared us "very good". The power of sin is not greater than the power of God. Therefore, we are still "very good" in spite of our sinful nature. The only way that could not be true is if the power of Sin is greater than the power of God, and nothing is greater than the power of God.

We are delared clean and crowned with glory and honor, but we were also told that all our deeds are as filthy rags. It is our deeds, not us, that are as filthy rags.

I think one of the problems is that we equate "self-esteem" with secularism. Instead of saying "self-esteem", and we say "self-respect", that puts it in a different light. He who respects his neighbor respects himself. That certainly is in line with Jesus command for us to love our neighbor in the same manner as we love ourselves.

 

Those statements are true. I think those of us who are arguing against self esteem see the resulting mindset as the problem.

When we realize that we are important to God and have value to him, our conclusion should not be primarily to "esteem" ourselves. Rather, we need to esteem God, who is infinitely valuable.

If our hearts and minds are focused on God, it will never need to cross our minds that we can or should esteem ourselves, because our eyes will be fixed on God. Similarly, a person whose eyes are fixed on God and His supreme value will never be tempted to think too little of themselves, because they'll be focusing on what is more important.

One whose eyes are not fixed on God may value themselves too little, but the source of their problem is that they value God too little.

 

But why are "us thinking about we"???? According to Scripture, we should be thinking of others. When you start thinking about yourself, you are not obeying Scripture. It is not that you should have low esteem or think lowly of yourself. It is that you shouldn't be thinking of yourself at all.

 

Maybe some things are being confused here? As Christians, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Thus it is part of our witness to be as neat, clean, and healthy as possible, with modest dress. This is an honor to God.

As a mother, I know I have to take care of myself, or I am no good to anyone else. Therefore there is a certain amount of thinking about myself that is necessary for the sake of others. I need decent food and sleep and, for me personally, some time to myself.

These are not self-esteem things and should not be confused with that, but they do involved thinking about myself somewhat!

I also think this is the 'loving yourself' that Jesus referred to when He said we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. Do they have enough to eat and clothes to wear? Do the young mothers in particular get time away from their children to simply be human beings by themselves and recoup for the next round? That sort of thing. I look at the very things I want, such as warmth, care when I am sick, coolness on very hot days, laughter when I am down -- and then I try to make sure that the world around me is as well supplied with the same as I can manage.

So, in this sense, paying attention to myself is a prerequisite to not only taking enough care to be able to serve, but to think about what service would best help those around me.

But that is not self-esteem. Self-esteem -- the kind we are warned about in the Bible -- is to think I am better than someone else. We are told to do the exact opposite: to consider them better than ourselves. This gives us the servant's heart the Lord desires in us.

But there is another kind of self-esteem, too, which IS biblical, and Johnv is on the trail of it here: recognizing that we are created in the image of God is an incredible thing! We have been given dominion over the earth. We have been entrusted with His Gospel. We who are born again are the younger brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ Himself! This is an incredible thing! This is an honor to be worn with pride in God and total humility regarding ourselves. Nevertheless, we should not belittle the position we have in Christ -- that sort of 'self-esteem' is simply honesty regarding what He has done for us.

 

Great posts JohnV and Helen . You both explained very well what I was trying go convey but obviously didn't.

I am the child of The King. Of course, I have self-esteem. But I did nothing to acquire it except say, "Lord, save me."

I do not think of myself more highly than others; if anything, it would be the opposite.

I love my neighbors; but if I have low self-esteem and loved them as I love myself; they wouldn't be getting much from me would they?

Just as there are right and wrong ways of feeling anger, love, fear etc., there is a right and wrong way to feel esteemed.


Sue

 

Helen,

I agree that this description of "self-esteem" is biblical; however, I am concerned that the application of this truth focuses our attention on our own value rather than on the source of that value.

Yes, we need to understand this truth, but when we are tempted to esteem ourselves improperly, the answer is to focus on how great God is and on what he's done for us, not on how much worth we have.

Ultimately, one who "doubts" his own value is sinning, not because he's undervalued himself, but because he's undervalued God and overvalued himself.

 

According to Scripture, we should be thinking of others. When you start thinking about yourself, you are not obeying Scripture.

But, Jesus tells us to love our neighbors how? As we love ourselves.

Sigfried says: If we have a right understanding of God and his purpose for creating us, our view of ourselves will fall in line.

Exactly. Having a proper attitude of self worth is a result of having a proper understanding of God.

Hellen said: As Christians, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Thus it is part of our witness to be as neat, clean, and healthy as possible, with modest dress. This is an honor to God. I agree completely. If we're not supposed to honor ourselves, then why not simply seek pleasure in drugs, illicit sex, and the like? We would never do that, because in doing so, we dishonor ourselves, and likewise dishonor God.

 

I don't want to put words in Pastor Larry's mouth, but I think the three of us will find common ground if you agree that the solution for a person with "low self esteem" is to help them adjust their view of God rather than their view of themselves. If they adjust their view of God, the view of themselves will correct itself.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

I have avoided this thread for quite a while, finally
reading the rest a few minutes ago, because when
a person truly does have problems with their self-
attitude, some of the things innocently said here
are really not helpful and can be quite damaging.

I am saying this not to be critical but to be helpful,
in my own way. Also, this is not Pity Party Time
8oD ! ! But these are the facts:

My very parentally unskilled parents truly believed
that the best way to treat their children was to put
them down in every way imagineable. They really
believed they should break us down to worm
level, then push us firmly under the dirt. They
meant well, but they basically destroyed huge
chunks of our lives (five natural children and @
nine foster children) which we all had to work
hard to take back.

They purposely invalidated us as persons, worthy
of such basics as food and clothing. And while I
say "they," it was Mother who did the work, but
Father never stopped her. She let us know that
we were like mules, and we needed breaking.
She did it with her brand of "discipline" as well
as with her words.

Of all these children in our home, only two, that
I know of, claim to know the Lord: one sister and
myself. Why?

Perfectionism told us we would never be able to
make ourselves good enough for our God, so
why try?

They were religious and claimed that they were
doing what our God wanted them to do, when
they treated us that way, so our God became as
hateful and damaging in our minds as our parents
were.

Religion proved, to us, to be invalid and cruel. It
spoke of love, but we were not loved. It spoke
of treating others well, but we were not treated
well.

When a person is totaly deprived of all forms of
self esteem, they cannot empathize, much less
love, and what does the Bible claim? That our
"God is love"? What love? Love is being that low
and being told that we deserve to be lower?

I believe there has to be a basis of self respect
in order to build upon it esteem for others,
empathy, respect, and love. Without this
foundation, even the most elementary threads of
love will not exist.

[ January 28, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

It seems that this statement lends further evidence to the fact that the root problem of low self esteem is an inaccurate view of God. Until that problem is corrected, any reformation of their view of self is merely window dressing.

Are you saying that the foundation for our love for others is primarily our love for ourselves? Why would we ever be moved to love others because we love ourselves properly? Is it not the presence of an accurate estimation of God and the nature of His love that moves us to love others sacrificially as He did us?

 

Where is "empathy" a command of Scripture and where do we see empathy being necessary to fulfill the commands of Scripture? I am not suggesting that we shouldn't empathizse. But our goal is not empathy; it is discipleship. I don't need to empathize with someone to help them biblically. This is what leads to the idea that people who have been in certain situations are better able to help those who are in them. For instance, former drug addicts are "better" counselors for drug addicts than someone who is equipped with the word of God. That is simply wrong. In order to help others, we need the word of God.

Neither is anyone here saying that love for yourself should go lower. I repeat the question, What are you doing thinking about yourself anyway? The biblical command is ministry towards others. They are to be the focus of our thoughts. The answer to low self esteem is stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about others.

I totally disagree. In order to "have esteem for others," i.e., love them, we need to understand God and his love for us. Love does not stem from my self-feelings but rather from my commitment to obedience.

I don't mean to be harsh, I really don't. But far too often, the church has bought into pop psychology and we are not better for it. We need a return to biblically based practice. I know this is radical stuff to a church inundated with modernity. But it should not be.

When I focus onGod, our love for others will grow and my focus on myself will decrease. Thus, I won't feel bad about myself because I won't be thinking about myself. When I focus on myself, my self-esteem will be an issue.

I am not saying you should have low self-esteem. I am saying you shouldn't be thinking about yourself at all.

[ January 29, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

Where is "empathy" a command of Scripture and where do we see empathy being necessary to fulfill the commands of Scripture? I am not suggesting that we shouldn't empathizse. But our goal is not empathy; it is discipleship. I don't need to empathize with someone to help them biblically. This is what leads to the idea that people who have been in certain situations are better able to help those who are in them. For instance, former drug addicts are "better" counselors for drug addicts than someone who is equipped with the word of God. That is simply wrong. In order to help others, we need the word of God.</font>[/QUOTE]Where is empathy a command of Scripture? We are to follow Christ, right?

When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick.
Matthew 14:14

Jesus called his disciples to him and said, "I have compassion for these people; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry, or they may collapse on the way."

Empathy is a form of caring based on an understanding of the situation. It is not sympathy. It is a compassion, a type of love. And yes, we are commanded to love. That means to care for; to commit to. We certainly cannot do that without understanding something of the person's life and situations!

As far as an ex-addict being better than someone else in terms of helping an addict -- there is no possible way that someone who has not been there can understand the agony of the person addicted. They can only preach and those preached words, without love, are clanging cymbals. It is because I have had an artificial knee replacement that I can understand the pain of that kind of surgery -- and the benefits afterwards. That leaves me in a position to be of encouragement to others undergoing the same thing; a position even the doctor who does the surgery but has never had it done to himself is not in. There is a ton of encouragement and help someone who has walked your path before you can give that others can't, Bible or not. However I will also be the first to say that all that encouragement and help is very temporary without being able to share the final answer, the final healing, the final help and encouragement only found in Christ. But the encouragement and help are very real even apart from that at the time given. In fact, in my own life, when crises have hit, I have often been helped and encouraged more by non-Christians than by Christians, who seem all too eager to judge and preach!

But it is the people who have walked that road before you who know how necessary that empathy is, and the time and patience to walk alongside you for a bit.

And this is precisely the reason it is imperative that we understand that God is going to allow catastrophes of all kinds into the lives of Christians -- because the best and most wonderful help that can be given anyone is a Christian who has "been there done that."

Is empathy commanded? Only if love is....

I am going to bet you got up this morning and got dressed in decent clothes.

You were thinking about yourself -- what to wear and what you would be doing today.

I am willing to bet you will have enough to eat today and that you will eat the foods you prefer.

You will be thinking about yourself and what you like to eat.

We think about ourselves plenty -- all of us. It is the WAY, the MANNER, and the TIME which is involved in this which is the telling thing. If I did not think about myself enough to take care of my own need for food, sleep, warmth, etc., then I would be absolutely worthless to anyone else. The idea is not to concentrate on yourself, but to get yourself taken care of and out of the way as quickly as possible so that you can be of service to others.

And serving means paying attention to them -- caring -- empathizing.

I totally disagree. In order to "have esteem for others," i.e., love them, we need to understand God and his love for us. Love does not stem from my self-feelings but rather from my commitment to obedience. </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps, Larry, you don't understand what she is talking about because you have never been there? I have. I was emotionally beaten down by a husband for 20 years. I was asked how it felt to be wrong 99% of the time. I was scorned, ignored, ridiculed. By the time he left I felt like a paper cup someone had used, crumpled up, and tossed away. In that condition it was impossible for me to love even my children. I cried on the sofa day after day for awhile. Friends mostly abandon because they had been friends of US as a couple, and what do you do with a female who has come undone at the seams? Oh, I've been there, and I know exactly what she is talking about. Twelve years later there are still areas of my life that are healing!

Oh, by the way, I was a Christian the entire time...

But God was working with me. In part, I think, to increase my compassion for single parents. I had, in my own life, also quietly judged and ignored them before for the most part. No longer. Oh, believe me, no longer! Now I am much more able to counsel them as a Christian simply because I have walked that road. I do know what it is like to be so low you are looking up at worms' bellies. And God worked with me and formed me to make sure I came out not only stronger in faith, but much more compassionate towards others.

I do have self-respect now. Finally I know that God is working with me and through me and that He is making me competant for the work He has given me to do. That is not self-congratulations, but self-respect. It is the kind of thing that allows me to forget myself and not worry about what others think, but to just go ahead and get the work done that has been given me to do. Trusting Him. Because I know He can use me and does. This kind of self-respect is essentially a respect of God and His work, though, not of me and mine. Nevertheless, it is part and parcel of my being and something that allows me to pay attention to others.

I do understand exactly what Abiyah was saying.

I agree with you completely on this one. However, do not throw the baby out with the bathwater! Compassion, empathy, experience -- these are all valuable things when working with others.

 

What are you doing thinking about yourself anyway?

I have a biblical obligation to take care of the temple of the Holy Spirit, which is my body (phycially, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally). If I can't take care of myself, how am I supposed to take care of my neighbor?

 

This is a fallacious argument. Christ also healed those on whom he had compassion. Does that mean we're supposed to heal, too?

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have compassion. I am saying that this passage is not a command for empathy. Christ was able to be truly empathic because He was omniscient God. We are not. Nevertheless, we can still be compassionate when empathy is not possible.

You seem to be equating empathy with love in this and other statements. Although empathy may be an aspect of love, I can certainly love an addict even though I have never been one. You are in great error to suggest that I cannot minister through the Word to an addict because I've never been in his shoes. That's like saying that because you're a woman you could never love a man because you've never been one.

I will agree that common experience offers instant credibility that is otherwise difficult to achieve. Nevertheless, God's Word will not return void. Biblical teaching, whether the counselee realizes it or not, is the only truth that can change a life. Wisdom from experience pales in comparison with wisdom Scripture. I trust that you would not suggest otherwise.

 

This is a fallacious argument. Christ also healed those on whom he had compassion. Does that mean we're supposed to heal, too?</font>[/QUOTE]Yes. I did not laugh at my children's wounds. I washed and medicated and bandaged them. When necessary, I took them to the doctor. I have stood by with surgeries and devastating illnesses. You bet I have done my best to heal. I'm not Christ, and cannot heal as He did, but you'd better believe I have not turned my back when I could do something to help!

"But we have the mind of Christ...."
Compassion requires empathy. Empathy is a type of understanding and feeling FOR someone. That is exactly the pull used by the ads to help support children in third world countries.

You seem to be equating empathy with love in this and other statements. Although empathy may be an aspect of love, I can certainly love an addict even though I have never been one. You are in great error to suggest that I cannot minister through the Word to an addict because I've never been in his shoes. That's like saying that because you're a woman you could never love a man because you've never been one.</font>[/QUOTE]Of course you can love someone different from you. But it is much harder to understand and give them real help for their situation and feelings if you have not walked that path before. I love my husband dearly, by the way, but I really do not understand some of the ways his mind works! I accept it, but sometimes shaking my head and wondering how two people can be so different. You see, I have never been a man....

I will agree that common experience offers instant credibility that is otherwise difficult to achieve. Nevertheless, God's Word will not return void. Biblical teaching, whether the counselee realizes it or not, is the only truth that can change a life. Wisdom from experience pales in comparison with wisdom Scripture. I trust that you would not suggest otherwise.</font>[/QUOTE]It's not even a matter of credibility. It's a matter of knowing what help and encouragement is the most valuable and important at the point of pain or crisis. And I will be so bold as to say that neither experience nor Bible knowledge by themselves can do nearly as much as a born again Christian with Bible knowledge who has already walked that path and knows the pain, the confusion in the middle of the crisis, etc., the way no other kind of person ever could.

Christians who have been through pain, up hard mountains, survived life-threatening emergencies -- these are some very valuable people. And this is precisely why my preference for recommending a counselor will always be an older Christian that has already been through the wringer. They know. They know Christ and they know how to love and they know how to walk alongside in empathy and compassion during the time the other is too weak to walk alone.

[ January 29, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

This is a fallacious argument. Christ also healed those on whom he had compassion. Does that mean we're supposed to heal, too?</font>[/QUOTE]Yes. I did not laugh at my children's wounds.</font>[/QUOTE]Did I say you did?

I'm glad, but bandaging is not healing.

Neither is chauffeuring healing.

Not healing.

Nevertheless, you did not heal.

Actually, you can't heal, period.

And well you should not. But that doesn't mean that your argument is valid. I think you're mis-defining compassion. Is it necessarily empathy? I don't think so. Is it not compassionate to feel sorrow at the pain another experiences even if I can't imagine his or her pain? Is that compassion not following Christ's pattern?

 

Sure but not my point. We are to have compassion; I do not deny that in the least. But the point seemed to be being made that the only ones who can truly emphathize and help are people who have been there and I think your verses prove that totally wrong. Christ did not have to be an adulterer to emphathize with one. He did not have to be sick to have compassion on one. His ability to help others did not stem from his self-esteem but from his commitment to do the father’s will. Consider the life of Christ compared to the one’s described by you and Abiyah. His was much worse and yet not one time do you see him using that as an excuse. He is the one who endured such contradiction of sinners against himself; you have not yet strived to the shedding of blood (HEB 12:3-4).

I have no problems with love and compassion. They are things that I try to cultivate in my own life and ministry. But I do have a problem with navel gazing.

In this sense, I have no issues with empathy. My issues are when you tie empathy with supposed self-esteem, which was the topic of discussion.

And I am going to bet that you know good and well that this is so far off topic that you know you shouldn’t have brought it in here. Getting dressed, eating, etc has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You should know that Helen

I can empathize with that. I don’t have to have experienced it and it takes no particular feelings or emotions of self-esteem on my part to (proverbially) put my arms around you and help you through it. That is my point exactly. The greatest counselor (Christ) never experienced a troubled marriage or a abusive childhood. Yet you surely would not tell him he doesn’t understand. He dealt with people from the principles of truth that are preserved for us in Scripture. That is why I say over and over, the best counselor is a trained theologian. Only when we know Scripture intimately are we able to help people with life issues.

If you get to the point where, as you say, it was impossible to love your children, it seems you have called into question 1 Cor 10:13 where God explicitly promises not to place under more temptation than you can handle. The fact that you experienced the temptation was a clear sign that you could have loved them. Again, I realize that that is very direct and sounds harsh. Were you in my office or I in your living room, I think the context would make it sound entirely different … but the truth would be the same.

You are right that I have not been there and to be honest, I can’t even imagine the circumstance. But I can assure you that the principles of God’s word are sufficient to deal with it and I challenge you to find one place in God’s word where the answer to a life problem is “feel better about yourself.” I mean that seriously. That is not a slogan. It is a genuine challenge. I cannot think of any place in Scripture where “feel better about yourself” is offered as the solution to problems. If you cannot find one, here is the question: IF Scripture does not offer that as a solution, then why should we?

The grace of God is what enables obedience, not self-esteem. My heart goes out to people who have been treated like you and Abiyah. Because of my community, I see them all the time. But the answer is not for me to empathize from my past but to take the principles of God’s word and apply them in a loving manner.

Our bottom line must be Scripture and scriptural solutions and that will set us apart from the world and unfortunately from a vast majority of professing Christendom.

 

This argument is not what the self-esteem movement is about. The self-esteem movement tells people that the answer to drugs and teenage immorality is feel better about yourself. The Bible says the answer is obedience. Right feelings follow right actions. That is where we need to be focusing.