Should baptists be part of the free masonry?

more info

I do not follow your reasoning. Your claims (lying, murdering, death oaths) are meaningless, and moot. Therefore your question has no validity.

Is there anything in Christian teaching, that specifically enjoins Christians from being Freemasons? I have not seen it. If you have some specific Scripture, or other Christian teaching that forbids Freemasonry, I would like to see it.

 

Masonry is a religion that should be avoided.

 

I would like to see this as well! Christian doctors are entrusted with medical secrets about their patients. If they disclose confidential information, unlawfully, they are subject to criminal prosecution, and losing their medical license! BTW- Doctors swear the Hippocratic oath.

Christian Lawyers can be prosecuted for unlawfully disclosing confidential information, and they can be disbarred. BTW- Lawyers swear an oath, when they are admitted to the bar.

 

Clarification

( I was at Leatherneck in August, I am at Kabul Airport now)

Come on. You are not getting it at all.

There is no "murder" in Freemasonry. That is absurd beyond belief. No one is going to join a club, that would risk getting a life sentence. Ridiculous beyond belief. No one swears to kill anyone. Look up the oaths on the internet! I posted the Entered Apprentice oath.

If a Freemason commits a misdemeanor or a felony, he should turn himself in. (this is not in the oath). Freemasonry teaches rectitude of conduct, and morality. If a Freemason knows of another Freemason, who has committed a crime, he should immediately turn that person in to law enforcement.





BTW: You took an oath when you enlisted. (So did I). How do you reconcile your oath of enlistment, with the (alleged) Biblical injuction against swearing oaths?

 

clarification

Really? I worked with highly classified material, when I was in the Air Force. All my work was done in secret, because of national security. The Coca-Cola company keeps the formula for their soda pop a secret, even from the federal government.

The Masonic funeral is held openly, for all to see. None of it is withheld from the public.

Lodge meetings are closed to members only. Just like the board meetings of the Ford Motor Company are closed to the board members. So What?

 

more

Quit thumping that tub. NNE takes an oath to kill anyone. So your premise is false. Only the individual whose hands are on the Bible, takes the oath. The oaths are readily visible on the internet. There is nothing about killing anyone.

The duties set forth in the oath, are very numerous and weighty, but none of them will ever conflict with the duties that the Mason owes to his Neighbor, his God, his family, his country, or himself.

I took the (multiple) Masonic oaths, with every intention of keeping them in letter and in spirit. I have been a Mason for 29 years, and I have done so.

SO MOTE IT BE!

 

Good questions

--Way off base, mister. NOTHING in Masonry teaches a "salvation" works-based or otherwise. You will not find salvation in a Masonic lodge, it is not there! If anyone seeks salvation in our Fraternity, they will be disappointed and come up empty-handed. Not there.

You are quite correct, that 'salvation' is not mentioned. And for a very good reason, it is not there.

 

How do Masons explain this?

 

In speaking of the "symbolic" blood oaths that Masons take Albert Pike said the following:

 

Wrong

"The symbolism of the Master's Degree, as we have it now, is necessarily restricted to the First Temple and to the present life; although it reaches a climax in the assurance of a future life all without the aid of the Bible, God, Jesus Christ or the church." (John A. Hertel Company, "The Masonic Bible,' pages 10-11)

 

Freemasonry is an occult:

"What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons." (1 Corinthians 10:19-21)

 

For those who do not know here is the oath in question:

 

Masons are taught to hide their crimes:

 

At the highest level a Mason must swear allegiance to the lodge above God and everyone else.

 

I would think THAT would cause any Christian to FLEE Masonry.

 

The Scripture teaches that except ye be born again ye cannot see or enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Nowhere is there a teaching in Scripture that states that except ye believe ye cannot be born again.

In fact in context of John 3 Christ stated that if ye believe not ye are condemned already.

This is speaking of a timely or experiential condemnation.

It is in the same concept as stating to the Pharisees that they compass the earth to make one proselyte and in making him, they make him two fold more a child of hell than they themselves.

Brother Charles it is good to meet you.

Brethren, you are reading things written by a man, Albert Pike. Although he has been presented as the mouth of all masons, a little study of his history and the limitations of his scholarship will reveal to you the truth concerning his writings in the book Morals and Dogma. A book reputed to be the Bible of all Masons, yet I have never even seen one much less to have read it. I was initiated in Feb. 06, passed in Apr. and raised to the sublime degree of master mason in July 06. I entered into York Rite Masonry in Sept. 08 in Maysville, KY. I am a member of the York Rite Royal Arch Masonic chapter in Glasgow, KY. after my work in Maysville ended and I was laid off I returned with my family to my home of Glasgow. I am currently within the degrees of York Rite Council of the Grand Council of KY of Royal and Select and Super Excellent Master Masons. I am awaiting opportunity to enter further into the completion of the York Rite by elevating to the Knights Templar.

All that Brother Charles has written to you from the beginning of his very excellent post of information is true and correct and represents the sole purpose of Masonry either at the Blue Lodge level, in the 3 degrees of Masonry, which is the ground and completion of all Speculative Masonry, or in the further degrees.

There is no secret with held from brethren of lesser degrees from within the supposed 'higher' degrees because the 'lesser' degrees are the ground of those suspected to be higher. The secrets on Masonry consist only in recognition of another Mason and if he so chooses not even another Mason will know him to be a Brother.

The whole teaching of Masonry receives members of all faiths based on a hope of God in His mercy to redeem a people for His name sake. This is the hope of which the faith of ALL Christians rests as Paul teaches us in Hebrews 11.

It is of no concern to me whether you support masonry or whether you oppose it or whether you are indifferent, but what does concern me is that you would base your opposition upon partial truth that is purposed to only excite your emotional passions.

It has already been shown to you that each of us are under the 'oath' to Christ to perform a 'blood' oath in any offense of sight, action or walk in plucking out our eye, cutting off our hand or foot for any offense particular to that. Yet this is not an oath taken literally but given for the impression of the serious nature of our profession of faith in Christ in that it is impossible that offense may come, but it were better that for he through whom the offense comes not to have been born or to have a millstone tied about his neck and he cast into the sea.

Which of us perform this oath of blood and death in the disciplinary actions of either our personal walk before Christ or our collective congregational worship of Him?

I have been to many baptism, but I have never been to a body performing unhappy but sometimes needful disciplinary action in which the offender had a millstone tied about his neck and we cast him into the sea, yet the scripture says it would be better for such a thing to befall this offender?

Zeal is a good thing when rightly applied. When applied in error we often find ourselves even in opposition to God.

God is not weak and his arm is not shortened that he cannot save his people. This is the redemption we have in Christ. Not all are able, for varying circumstances to 'come' to faith. But all will come to Christ being born of his Spirit and of all these not one will fail to be brought with Christ when he delivers up the Kingdom to His Father and ours.

In relationship to the history of Albert Pike. He was raised in the 3rd degree and very soon and perhaps unprepared so, given the symbolic degrees of the Scottish Rite. He then was given the charge to write a work of instruction and history of the rites of Masonry. He faithfully poured himself into this study in preparation of doing all that his hand found to do with all the might provided him, yet he himself admits he had little or no understanding of the meaning of many of the symbols in masonry, so he sought it out according to the fact that masonry is not an intended substitute for Christ nor the Christian doctrine and church, but that by such application he might provide a body of knowledge to aid and assist the Brethren to bear in mind their moral duty to each other and to their fellow man irregardless of their particular faith and practice in matters of religion.

In the word of God the word "Lucifer" means bearer of light. NOW, if the predominant thought is that this word is the same as Lucifer, then that is a Christian application and not first to be found or used by Pike.

Who is the bearer of Light? Hint: You will find John the Apostle declare Him by witness of John the Baptist.

The great hindrance to Albert Pike is that he was limited in his knowledge and understanding of the symbols of masonry and he sought far and wide to make applications that would teach moral lessons, in order to improve the lives of masons and those they were able to daily help through their family, acquaintanceship etc. There is no dark religious undertone. All endeavors of masonry and among masons seek the blessing of God, the Eternal Living God who has created the universe and writes his laws into the hearts of his people according to his everlasting covenant, that His blessing be upon the timely work of masons and masonry.

Brethren, none have offended me. None have accused me. None have made me to feel censured or rebuked. I only answered in this thread in order to show truth. I did not answer to prove any man wrong. As I have said, whether it is right to speak such an 'high and sacred' oath and faithfully perform it before God under his watchcare, or whether it is right to denounce such an oath as evil based only upon partial truth, you must decide.

As for me, I am a Mason, I support the work of Masonry and none of my support of Masonry is for the intent that I may gain or indebt God to grant me eternal life.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

The Entered Apprentice oath.

(from cemab4y). I posted the Entered Apprentice oath, previously. Here it is again:

I, (name), of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him, and dedicated to the holy Sts. John, do hereby and hereon (Master presses his gavel on candidate's knuckles) most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal, any of the arts, parts, or points of the hidden mysteries of Ancient Free Masonry, which may have been, or hereafter shall be, at this time, or any future period, communicated to me, as such, to any person or persons whomsoever, except it be to a true and lawful brother Mason, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Masons; nor unto him or them until, by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear that I will not print, paint, stamp, stain, cut, carve, mark, or engrave them, or cause the same to be done, on any thing movable or immovable, capable of receiving the least impression of a word, syllable, letter, or character, whereby the same may become legible or intelligible to any person under the canopy of heaven, and the secrets of Masonry thereby unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness.

All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to perform the same, without any mental reservation or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly violate this my Entered Apprentice obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same. (end of the oath)

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All of the oaths have been published in books, and on line for many years.

As far as speaking on "equal ground", that is problematic. Masonry is like the "ink-blot test" that you take in the psychologist's office. You see what you want to see. Some people see a satanist, cult, right out of the pit of hell. Some see a wonderful, educational and fraternal organization, that teaches fundamental lessons of truth, brotherly love, and relief to the poor, the sick, the widow, and the orphan. Some see an organization, that disbruses over $2.6 million dollars per day, to relieve human suffering, and provide free medical care to crippled and burned children, and enable thousands of deserving young people, to get the college education they deserve.

It is worth noting, that Adolf Hitler, Francisco Franco, Josef Stalin, and dictators and tyrants throughout history have hated freemasonry, and worked to crush the Fraternity. When you oppose Freemasonry, you walk with these monsters.

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Paul Revere, Andrew Jackson, and many (but not all) of the founding fathers, were Freemasons. They brought the lessons of freedom and tolerance into their personal lives, and their political philosophies. When you support Freemasonry, you are walking with these men.

Who do you walk with?

 

clarification

This is preposterous. First, there is no such thing as a "Masonic Bible". Masonry has no revealed scripture, none at all. There is no "Book of Mason". I am appalled that any thinking person, would assume that there is. Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. Masonry will in no way, prepare any individual for an afterlife. Masonry, wisely, avoids any religious debate. It does not state that all "religions are equal", but it clearly states that all men are equal.

Masonry makes no attempt to define "sin" or "salvation". A purpose of Masonry, is to assist men, in self-improvement. (There are other purposes and goals). Masons are taught brotherly love, relief, and truth. Friendship and morality are also taught. These concepts transcend religious difference. Even an atheist can be a moral man.

No mason has ever, nor will ever gain acceptance into a future life, through the teachings of Masonry. If any man ever approached me, and asked me to sponsor him in Masonry, so that he could get an afterlife, I would tell him that he was sadly mistaken, and misinformed. I would not assist him in petitioning the fraternity.

 

more misinformation

This is so false, as to be disgusting. The quotation cited is from an obscure book, written in 1904. The writer, Edmond Ronayne, does not speak for all of Masonry, and his book was never adopted as official policy for any Masonic body anywhere.

The writing is mostly from the 19th century, and the terminology and prose is turgid, and totally inapplicable to Freemasonry. Certain words and phrases, are archaic and obsolete.

To get it in proper context:

Masons are indeed taught to keep the secrets of brother Masons. Just like a doctor is required to keep the professional confidences entrusted unto him. Masons are not required to keep a secret of a brother Mason, who is involved in treason or murder, these being left to his own discretion.

NO MASON IS TAUGHT to lie or commit perjury! This is preposterous, and beyond belief. On the contrary, Truth is one of the pillars of our Fraternity.

The book cited is available on line:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1425320155/?tag=baptis04-20

The problem with citing quotations from books such as this (including, Morals and Dogma), is that these authors are expressing their own opinions, however weird or bizarre they may be. Taking one little passage, totally out of context, will lead the reader down a path of misunderstanding.

Masonry is a serious subject, and it invites serious study.

 

getting fruit from the poisoned tree

The problem with this information is that it is totally false. In the first place, Tom McKenney was never a Mason. And in the second place, Jim Shaw was never a 33rd degree Mason. Any statements about the 33rd degree ceremony attributed to a man who never took the degree, is therefore meaningless.

See http://204.3.136.66/web/SRpublications/deHoyos-chapter5.htm