The 'Invitation'

Just because nobody goes forward does not mean that nobody is responding to the message. I would rather see lives being transformed by the grace of God little by little, being "lived out" in real life than an altar full of people (which by the way is not an altar).

 

wow Salty! I think my first thought would have been, "Tom, if you knew your friend needed to get saved why did it take you 2 or 3 verses before you said anything to him?"

some people just want to abdicate responsibility, too....

 

Re: The 'Invitation"

I can not speak for others, but for me, the churches around here, the invitation is a joke, to be quite honest. Y'all just don't know how much I abhor these!! It's more like a "play on words" than an invitation. One night I went to a church and at the end, one of the preachers made the "invitation". After a couple of minutes of no response, he then started pounding his palm over his chest, making a "heart-thumping" sound, saying, "You hear it? That's your heart beating. You don't know when it will stop. You feel that lump in your throat"...yadda, yadda, yadda. All theatrics, if you ask me. This is why I am against them. Too many times, men try to play the Holy Ghost in the service...try to replace God. If the Holy Ghost can't convict them, then none of us can, plain and simple. I can't help but think that a majority of people go up because they are convicted by man, and not by God. Then after a while, they don't hold true, and then everyone says that Brother or Sister so and so, backslid. They didn't have it to start with!! I will not take membership at a church that has these! I love my home church, but when a preacher stands up front and begins to beg people to come to the altar, I'll ask for my letter and go somewhere else. There isn't one scripture to support begging people.....Jesus didn't beg!! I won't either. I want all to be saved, but I'll let God do that part, not me. May God bless!!

Willis

 

convicted, I understand and respect what you just said - however there most definitely is Scripture to support begging people to come to Christ -

"go into the highways and hedges and 'compel' them to come in."

We are indeed supposed to do more than just present the gospel - we are supposed to entreat, to implore people, to earnestly warn them of their direction and basically beg them to come to Christ.

Overly emotional? No. But begging and entreating them, Yes. The Holy Spirit does use our emotions, btw, and having an emotional response is not a bad thing. The emotional response is not what saves us, and that sometimes is how some of these invitations come across. But it's not a good idea to dump an entire idea solely because some people misapply it.

 

Re: The 'Invitation"

Dear Bapmom,

As you can plainly tell, that is why I stated "I can not talk for any one else", so the way its done other places may be way different. Around here where Ilive, it all "theatrics" if you ask me. You may go to some of the churches around here, and agree with me or not. I just hate it when the preacher stands up there and yells,"come, come, come, come to the altar and be saved!" The altar has no place in the NT. I was saved at work. I am not saying anyone hasn't been saved at the foot of the pulpit, its just that I don't agree with the "altar calls". If I could "beg" someone to get saved, someone could "beg" them into a bar. Please don't be offended at me, it's just the way I see it, that's all.

Willis

 

But it seems a very long jump from "compel them to come in" to "acknowledge an altar in your church building, and persuade people to walk to the front to be saved." We are surely to encourage people to come to Jesus Christ for salvation, not to come to a particular part of a building. But I must add that I am not suggesting that churches who have these "altar calls" are doing so from wrong motives.

 

At the Primitive Baptist church I pastored, we gave altar calls, or invitations. Not often, but we did.
At the end of the service, if there are new faces in the church, or relatives of members, or just walk-ins, the pastor I took over from, and myself when I was pastoring, would usually state:

"the doors of this church are open for those who may have a testimony of grace they would like to share or are led by the Spirit to come and join the Lord's church at Columbia through the waters of baptism, or to transfer their membership to this church".

Not always verbatim, but words to that effect.

We'd wait for a minute or two. No music. No looking around.

Then, we'd proceed to close the prayers if no one walked forward.

By contrast, in many Bible Baptist churches I attended or have been a member of, the altar call was a long, extended, emotional appeal to come and get saved, that it bordered on ridiculous, tiring, and dramatic that I sometimes wondered if those who came forward came forward because they really were convicted by the Spirit, or convicted by the preacher's appeal, or convicted by their visitors, or by their girlfriends or boyfriends, or just plain friends, who wanted somebody's salvation chalked up to their credit because they brought the visitor in.....and, oh yes, it's a team effort, there's the organist playing beautifully, and the choir singing oh so mournfully and the preacher with tears streaming down his eyes and his voice quaking....

Honestly, I feel like throwing up most of the time because of all the drama, and I mean no offense to anyone.

I very seldom gave altar calls when I started pastoring but by God's grace, the church we started were made up 75% by pure converts from other religions, mostly Roman Catholics, and the rest by transferees.

 

That gentleman has got it right, Tom Butler.

A preacher can be as dull as dull can be, if the Holy Spirit works on the heart of a quickened soul, no invitation is needed.

A preacher can be as fiery as he can get, if the Holy Spirit has no child in the audience, he'll get those lit by his fire, not the Holy Spirit's.

 

What annoys me is the "second half" of some invitations where the preacher says, "And now to those who already know the Lord...." He usually calls for some kind of recommitment that if you thought about it, would rightly include everybody. To the point where if you didn't come forward, it would imply that at that moment you were absolutely sinless and perfect. How ridiculous!

Invitations to come forward, raise your hand, etc. should be relatively short, not overly emotional, and certainly not theatrical. And for specific things - salvation, call to full-time service (as in your day job, since we are all in full-time service in a manner of speaking), or something else specific. So that remaining in your seat or not raising your hand simply means the situations don't apply at that time.

 

They don't know that to be true. They cannot know the future, nor can they know how God will deal with them 20 minutes from now, much less the rest of their lives.

 

I have never heard a preacher say anything like that. All the preachers I've heard would attribute their salvation to a God Who is omnipotent, and Who cannot therefore be thwarted in His purposes by weather "they" sing five verses or six. Are there really "many preachers" who say that their salvation depended on them "going forward" in response to an "altar call"?

 

Such manipulations are based on false premises:
1. If people are to be saved, any method will do to get them down the aisle.
2. If it's not mentioned in the invitation, people will not rededicate their lives, will not confess their sins to God, will not pray.
3. Since responses are signs of God's approval of the method we use to get responses, we must get responses any way we can.

If there must be an invitatioin, I like pinoybaptist's way a couple of posts up. No music, no choir, no singing. Just open the doors of the church and wait a moment.

 

David, this "going forward" is rooted in the idea of making a "public" profession of faith. Also, rooted in "whosoever will confess me before men, I will confess before my father in heaven; whoever will deny me..." etc.

It is also based on the idea that if you want to be saved, come down here to the front and I'll walk you through the process--Roman Road, Sinner's Prayer, etc.

It's not stated as such, but it is rooted in the idea that humans can indeed thwart God's desire for their salvation by their own will, and our job is to talk them into changing their minds. Convince them by any means. Why do you think such responses are called "decisions?"

 

I don't want to be misunderstood. I do not question the motives of those who employ invitations. I believe they are sincere, and reflect an earnest care for the souls of men and women. I admire such zeal for evangelism, missions and soul-winning. And God has saved people through their ministry.

The invitation system and what is called "decisional regeneration" are also consistent with Arminianism, Semi-Pelagiansm or any other kind of non-Calvinism, even the Baptist hybrid kind. If one's salvation depends solely on our making a free choice to accept Christ, then anything that can appeal to that choice, that seeks to persuade one to choose Christ, is a legitimate method.

Simply put, most of our pastors have never known any other way. This is the way it's always been done in their churches. They have never considered another way, because they have not thought through the implications of this way.

In America, we find Calvinists doing one of two things: Rejecting the invitation entirely or modifying it to make the language and methods consistent with their Calvinism.

That's fine with me. I just think whatever we say or do in presenting the gospel should be measured against Scripture.

 

There seems to be a misunderstanding between and invitation and an alter call. As mentioned before, proper and sound Biblical preaching will be sprinkled throughout with "invitations" to come to Christ, not just reserved for the end of the message.

The 'Alter Call' however is entirely different. That REQUIRES a work on the part of the saint (to get right with God at the front of the church) or a sinner (to 'make a decision' for salvation). By a biblical definition it is NOT an alter, it is generally an area between the front row of pews and the pulpit area - normally the steps up to the platform. Imagine just before the service people were walking all over the 'alter' and just after the services and for th rest of the week pople walk all over the alter with their dirty shoes - what desicration of the alter!!!

People can be somewhat manipulated to believe that getting right with God or salvation is equated to the WORK of walking up front and kneeling at some steps. Is it so different than kissing a statue or saying some repetitious prayer?

 

I understand the difference between an invitation and an altar call, and I think most people on the BB also understand. However, in the part of the country where I grew up and still live (Kenlucky, Tennessee) there is no distinction. Around here, you'll hear the term invitation 90% of the time, and the altar call is usually included.

 

But the people encouraged to "go forward" are not yet Christians (except in cases where folks are urged to go to the front to re-dedicate their lives to Christ). And I think it is a great stretch to take the words of Jesus about confessing Him before men, as meaning "get up out of your seat, and go to a certain part of a church building."

(By the way, I know from your other posts on this thread that you are playing "devil's advocate" here. )