The occupancy of heaven

If you are saying that we should be trying to save souls,
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One can not save another's soul any more than one can save his own.

If a soul is to be saved then it will be saved and it won't be of any choosing of any man.

In other words God will do the directing. If He wants to use someone as an instrument to deliver the Truth then that someone will deliver. And it may be that one goes to another in a direct way and share the Truth or it may be in an indirect way suchas somone overhearing a conversation about the Truth. In other words one may have a distinct desire to share with another or it could be that they may be totally oblivious to the fact that they have shared with another.

 

The Revelation 21:17 dimension is not the important one. That is merely the height dimensions of the wall around the "new Jerusalem, and that is a mere 140 cubits, a cubit being approximately 18 inches, which would make the height of the wall 210 feet.

The dimensions of the city itself is given in Rev 21:16 as being All sides and height equal at a length of 12,000 furlongs. A furlong is 1/8th of a mile. 12,000 divided by 8 = 1500 Miles. So each side of the City is 1500 miles and the height is 1500 miles, the resulting volumn of the city is 3 BILLION, 375 Million cubic MILES of space within the city alone, or 3,375,000,000 Cubic Miles.

If every human who ever lived, is living and will live were to be housed within the City's dimensions; and for speculation purposes we'll say that number is 10 Billion persons, each would have 1/3 cubic MILE of space all to him/her self. Keep in mind for comparison purposes, the average family of four is "content" to have a 50 ft x 100 ft (5000 sq ft standard tract plot of land with a 1200 to 1500 sq ft home there on. The average American Tract home has a total height of approx 16 feet. Using 1500 sq ft X 16 feet, the total volume inside the standard home is 24,000 cubic feet .

1/3 cubic MILE is a volumn of 5,451,776,000 cubic ft. So a family of 4 occupying 24,000 Cubic feet here on this earth, would certainly have enough room in the New Jerusalem, because each member of the family would have 1/3rd cubic mile of space.

So my friend, you cannot limit the number of people to enter heaven by the dimensions of the New Jerusalem which is what you are attempting to do. There's plenty of room for everyone who ever lived!

Jesus said,

 

An added thought for Calvinists that may be thinking the God's election is to limit the number of people because of available space on the New Earth. In order for an earth like planet to support a structure such as the New Jerusalem, the new earth would need to be at least 2500 times larger than the present earth.

So it seems that God has thought of everything that makes it possible for whosoever believeth in Him to have everlasting life!

 

Judgement Day hasn't arrived yet, so there are no "confirmed" numbers at this stage....

 

Whetstone, I'm working with "KNOWNS" only and X is entirely dependent upon man because God does not force man to believe, and only those who believe receive the free gift of everlasting life. Never lose sight of the truth the scriptures say about the free gift of everlasting life...It is only given to those who believe in God. I did not include a factor for unknowns like "believers", or the slaughtered innocents, Only the current "known" (actually estimated) stats.

What I did not factor in because I don't know the value, is how many of those 10 Billion who ever lived, actually believed and thus recieved the Gift of Everlasting life. Considering the ratio that we see "attending church" vs those who do not attend church, it would seem to me that less that 1 billion out of the 10 billion would actually see the new earth, let alone the new Jerusalem. So, Whetstone your exceptions are completely groundless.

By the way, I trust that you do understand that I am not a universalist.

#1 Even if the number were 20 Billion, that would still leave each person with 1/6 Cubic Mile of personal living space or 2.7 billion cubic feet. Do we need to take this further yet and double the number of people to 40 Billion? The point being that no matter the number there is room on the new earth and within the New Jerusalem for all who be there.

#2 It has taken 10 millenniums for the population of the world to reach 6 Billion living at the same time. Do you really expect that in 1 millennium the number will become too great for God?

#3 As I've already shown, there is no problem including ALL humanity..

So the Doctrine of Election loses again to reason!

 

If the question is "does God know the future" the answer is yes.

But God lost 1/3 of the Angels in the war in heaven. For all we know the saints make up that loss in heaven.

ALL the saints and ALL the Angels are with God in heaven at the point of the 1Thess 4 rapture.

At then end of the 1000 years ALL the saints AND ALL the lost are here on earth -- for the GWTG and lake of fire event. SO EARTH is plenty big enough ALREADY!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Wes.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
You said that when Jesus talks to the disciples He is only talking to the disciples. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit... John 15:16.
You say this is said to the disciples only so why do you differ on John 15?
Using your rules there should be 11 mansions occupying that space so where is everyone else staying?

john.

 

God said "THE MANY" will lose salvation and only the "FEW" will obtain salvation. So if the TOTAL is TEN then the MANY would "probably" be 6 or larger!

In Christ,

Bob

 

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
You said that when Jesus talks to the disciples He is only talking to the disciples. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit... John 15:16.
You say this is said to the disciples only so why do you differ on John 15?
Using your rules there should be 11 mansions occupying that space so where is everyone else staying?

john. </font>[/QUOTE]If Jesus had not been speaking to the Apostles, we would not be able to read his words today!

I have never said that Jesus was not telling the Apostles about the world, or all mankind, or about past and present events. HE is speaking to the apostles, except when he is specifically addressing a crowd, or a multitude, or whatever. When Paul opens his letter to the Ephesians, he is speaking about God's plan of redemption of man, and how he chose 12 men to be the press corp for the broadcasting of the Good news.

You can deny that all you want, but your denial does not change the fact!

 

Hello Wes.

There you go again with your 'ifs'. Why should we need to know what He tells the disciples concerning only the disciples?

Your rule Wes. But I have read your reply a number of times and I find that you agree with me? You say: HE is speaking to the apostles, except ...
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Here at the last supper Jesus speaks to the disciples alone. Do you believe there are only 11 places being prepared? I should go for a simple no if I were you.

If this is only meant for the disciples:
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit... John 15:16.
Then this is also to the disciples alone:
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.

Where is the rule that governs this?

I am sorry but I don't know what it is you say I'm denying.

john.

 

Hello Bob.

Hell won't need to be as big as Heaven even though the many go there. It ain't a holiday camp after all.
A bit off topic but I'm bored.

john.

 

NO! but you obviously do because you keep bringing it up as if to convince us that it is true.

 

There you go again with your 'ifs'. Why should we need to know what He tells the disciples concerning only the disciples?</font>[/QUOTE]You don't seem to think much of my "ifs", so let me state it this way. BECAUSE Jesus told his disciples, we today, have their teachings by which to come to belief in Jesus, thereby satisfying God the father's requirement for man's salvation. By Jesus, who is God the Son, teaching those whom the Father had given him thus fulfilling prophesy that "they would be taught by God", The church of Jesus Christ was established in the Apostles.

IF you are an honest person, you will confess that I have never said that Jesus spoke to his disciples ONLY about His disciples. But rather that Jesus spoke to his disciples at length about Himself, His church, and about the salvation of man!

 

Here's a brain teaser for you: is hell just big enough for the devil and his angels, or did God make it big enough to accomidate all of the damned sinners throughout eternity? </font>[/QUOTE]The lake of fire is certainly big enough for satan and evil, Revelation 20 says so! Once they are in the lake they are gone for all eternity.

 

quote:
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God said "THE MANY" will lose salvation and only the "FEW" will obtain salvation. So if the TOTAL is TEN then the MANY would "probably" be 6 or larger!
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I see - no swingsets, houses, sand boxes needed for people in hell eh?

Well in any case - the 2nd resurrection happens here - and that is the MANY -- "ALL the wicked" that have ever lived in all of time!

And the camp of the saints is ALSO HERE at that same time.

So that is ALL of humanity - "here" -- the planet that is STILL big enough to hold them all.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Wes.

I was only asking Wes. I don't keep bringing it up except to ask how you differentiate the words spoken to the disciples alone and the words spoken to the disciples alone but meant for all. That's all.
What rule do you use to determine what Jesus says to who?

I do try to be honest but I am a man and mistakes happen. You say here, just to tidy things up, that Jesus is only talking to His disciples don't you? You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit... John 15:16.
I apologise if this is not from.
You say here, Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight, that Paul is only talking about the apostles are you not?

Hello Bob.

Can't see as they would have the time to relax Bob.

Where?

john.

 

John 14 thru 17 is Jesus with his disciples ONLY! Jesus is speaking exclusively to his disciples. John, by the power of the Holy Spirit wrote what Jesus was saying to them, in conversational style as if Jesus was dictating the text that John wrote several years later.

If you cannot see that John 14 thru 17 are Jesus with his disciples exclusively, then you desperately need a different version of the bible than what you currently use.

As for Ephesians 1:4, if you cannot see what Paul is telling the Ephesians, you are obviously not ready to be a preacher, or a deacon, or Sunday school teacher.