The Semi-Pelagian Narrower Catechism

Your assertions for God's reasons for Judgment Day.

 

Ben.

I'll tell you what I know.

You want me to fashion scriptural support for my contention that the Lord wants to reveal His glory?
What was the cross about if it was not about the revealing of the glory of God?
How could He reveal His wrath if there were no sinners?
EZE 39:21 "I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them.
How could He reveal His mercy if there were no sinners?
JN 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Judgement Day was visited on Christ for me. Doesn't this reveal His glory? Doesn't this mean that Judgement Day is not only to come, but not for me, but in ways it is now. Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart. Why not? Because you don't know how long you have. There must be a judgement before Judgement day otherwise those who die would have no where to go.
Judgement Day was not visited on Christ for all men and so those men will face their own judgement and that will also reveal God's glory by way of His wrath.

These ones, the ones that have not been forgiven, will face the sentence due to sin and will face further punishment for the sins they committed and the consequences of those sins if any. LK 16:19; Rom 6:23.
The punishment begins at death for the reprobate although it is not complete. 2 Peter 2:9 ...and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
Since the punishment is ongoing judgement has taken place on the reprobate's, their sin and sins have been judged but yet wait for judgement day for the consequences of them. Their bodies will be returned so they can suffer as humans and not disembodied spirits in the place called Hell.

The sheep go to be with Jesus in glory on death. They are welcomed home by Jesus and are made perfect in spirit. Heb 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
They are conscious of time, REV 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
And they are a little impatient! Good to see impatience is not a sin! And they await Judgement Day for the return of their bodies which they will only receive at the same time as all other Christians. Heb 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Any better?

johnp.

 

How about we start with this one passage johnp?

For He will render to every man according to his works. To those who by patience in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality..... on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:5-16).

Let's look at just one more:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the Elect... Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has given us new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead... the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior because it is written, "You shall be holy for I am holy." If you call upon as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth (1 Peter 1:15:17).

Well just one more relevant passage k?

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.... Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?" He said, "The one who showed compassion on him." And Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."" (Luke 10:25-28).

So whatcha think johnp?

 

So whatcha think johnp?

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

Salvation then is within your reach. This is good since you refuse the free pardon on offer and offer your own selfrighteousness in His place, go for it brother!
The veil can only be removed in Him.
I'll see you in Hell, from a distance.

johnp.

 

I find it odd you did not comment on any of these passages. You will notice I did not make any comments at all but simply posted the passages to which you have reacted with rejection toward them. Do you not like what the Word of God says?

And it seems you disagree with Jesus here at Luke 10:25-28. Why is that johnp? Do you not agree this was the correct answer?

 

Ben.

LK 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life? 26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" 27 He answered: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, `Love your neighbor as yourself.' " 28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

I've already said that if that is your decision then all the best to you. Do that and you will live. He will not hold your former sins against you. Go for it brother.

For one thing I had given you the answer above twice at least. Why did you want it a third time?
I don't believe a Christian should teach the unsaved. Those passages would have been teaching. We are to preach to you.

And to be salt and light to a dark world. As part of that salt I must show you that you have lied again about me. From no comment you claim I reject scripture. This is a shocking thing to do. Maybe it was a slip in which case there is no problem. The problem is not with me though it is with you.

Matt 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Like I said before Ben, "See you in Hell, from a distance." Because on the evidence I have of you I think you approach the selfrighteousness of the Pharisee.

johnp.

 

And so it appears you wish to disregard the plain teaching of Jesus and thereby nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition.

BTW johnp, would you like to know what Jesus meant at Matthew 5:48?

 

Why do you want to give me answers to questions that I have not asked and not give answers to ones I have?

I know what He means thanks. He means Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
That is for Christians and anyone else wanting a slice of the cake.

johnp.

 

I guess you don't care what Matt 5:48 means. Okay.

Why do you wish to nullify the teaching of Jesus and the Word of God at Luke 10:25-28 for the sake of your tradition?

 

What do you mean?

johnp.

 

You seem to claim that you do not agree with Jesus' teaching of Luke 10:25-28.

Do you agree or disagree with Jesus here in this passage?

[ February 25, 2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Ben Elohim ]

 

I agree with it.

johnp.

 

Hmmm hmmmm, and I imagine that you also agree that what immediately follows Luke 28 is an illustration on just HOW to "DO THIS" and obtain eternal life, correct>

 

Ben I'm sorry but Luke 28 is missing from my bible! I must have a duff copy.
As to obtain eternal life well that would be a difficult thing would it not?
Since you believe you can get into Heaven by your works I would say that if you tried very hard and I mean no shirking and you loved God with all your heart and loved me as much as you love you and you clenched your fists and closed your eyes and wished and wished that when you open your eyes again you will be in Hell.

As to obtain eternal life well that would be a difficult thing would it not?
I don't know what to say to you. You claim you can see. It is God that saves. He calls Himself Saviour. You have mistaken you for Him.
I think if you prayed to Him and told Him what you believed in an open and honest way and asked Him to reveal Himself to you then I would be confidant that He will hear you. I can't say that for sure because it is God that decides who to answer and who to leave in the dark. You have nothing to lose by it except your ego.

johnp.