What's Wrong With The Church ?

Gekko

I kinda think your statement is cute. But, I kinda gotta ask: if an un-saved person runs in front of a car and saves your friends life, but dies in the process - did the un-saved person sin by loving another enough to save their life?

While I realize that exceptions can be made for just about anything, I think that telling a lost person that 'everything' they do is 'sin' is not what the Word teaches. I think that the Word teaches that everything we do that is not sin (righteous or godly - in other words - good) is from God.

Just a little difference. But, I think most 'sinners' are aware that they have a problem, but they still don't want to believe that the good things they have done are sinful. Personally, I believe that God works the good even through the 'bad' people in this world.

2 cents - I'm done

 

2BHizown,
"Are you a christian?" will bring answers that are often meaningless as being a 'christian' means different things to different people!
My point exactly. As I am goint into a new church, I want a feel of where the members are spiritually and 99% of the members will answer "yes." It is the "why" in the question that reveals the true spiritual condition of the respondent.

Tell me about how you came to know Christ
This is a leading question which many know, mentally, the answer the preacher is looking for whether it is true in their life or not.

and what He has done in your life! This might bring in something significant.
Some people will answer this question with a book. While I do want to know this, the purpose of my questionair is to take the spiritual temperature of the membership, not a MRI.

The gospel is what we're about, not peoples needs! We're not 'seeker sensitive' but God sensitive, God honoring! God sent His Son to save sinners! Have you ever been aware that you're a sinner?
I agree totally. My questions are exploratory, not for the purpose of vision casting.

Do you know that you have great need of a Savior? You must be reborn, anew, life changed!
When did you hear me preach?

Has that happened to you?
November, 1959. My Sunday School teacher taught her three young boys the facts concerning sin, repentance, and salvation. On the Sunday after Thankgiving the Holy Spirit moved in my heart and Jesus cleansed my of all sin.

This dialogue/monologue might cause one to consider that without Christ as Savior they are forever lost!
This is true.

Back to the questionair. I have received responses such as:
I was baptized on....
I joined the church on...
My mother was a great Christian...
I am a ________ (deacon, Sunday School teacher, etc)
These responses let me know it is time for evangelistic sermons!

 

El_Geuro... anything that is not of faith is sin.

it may be a good work - thousands of other people probably do much more good works then i ever will. does it mean that its sin? who knows. i dont have any scriptures.

except for the scriptural fact that anything that is not of faith - is sin.

doing a simple good work isn't going to raise anything when you're in Court. so it doesnt matter if an unsaved person does something good - it doesn't count to where they're headed when they die.

we are born into sin - i believe people when they say that they were born gay. i believe that. because homosexuality is a sin - and we are born into sin - dont know what sin it is if it at all specific - but we all have a sin nature.

which leads to the fact that young babies dont have any comprehension of what sin or repentance is. so when they die - they go to be with the Lord - for they are His. because they have no clue what defines sin. without the law there was no sin romans 7 says - something like that.

so yeah - everybody has done nothing but sin - which is why romans says that "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

am i making more sense?

 

I think those are great questions.

I think Jesus gave the key when he commanded his disciples to make disciples. We must not neglect that very important point. Discipleship is not teaching them to be a student of Jesus but teaching them to follow Jesus in everything.

There are Americans who have been discipled here who are willing to face adversity in countries where Christians are persecute. So it happening today.

Over the years I have noticed even in countries where the Christians were string because of adversity have also gotten weker and staretd fighting. As Christians we must be intent on one purpose. Our purpose must be to make disciples in such a way that those diosciples make more disciples.

Often I think that if the church I attend closed its doors would it make any difference in my trust and allegiance to Christ? I would like to think not. I have no choice other than to follow Christ.

A few years ago a lady told me that it was much easier to share her faith in Russia than it is here. She told me that when she returned it was like instantly she was oppressed.

I believe Satan is alive and well and it is a spiritual battle. The battle is real. It is a battle at the door of good and evil. We must be alert and recognize the devil work.

Satan would like to get us busy, busy, busy, and not producing. We can waste our time on good things but not on the most important job of making disciples. If that is not done then we have ignored God.

In Acts 20 we notice the message Paul gave to the elders. The job of overseer is not relegated to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirt has given the job of overseer to men. Too often we have given the job of making disciples to God and not accepted our responsibility.

 

My faith is in God and His Word - they disagree with this . . .

 

Good point

 

There are a number of very good answers to this question already, IMHO. To add one other thought:

I think it is fair to say the church has lost the proper concept of who God is. The God revealed in the scriptures, the One the Lord Jesus revealed to us when He walked among us, is unknown to many these days, including many evangelical leaders. The fear of God and His judgment, the reality of hell and the trembling at His very Word that Jesus talked about so frequently and that Paul so plainly pointed out to the intellectual Athenians when God gave him the opportunity, has been lost.

As an example, I would wager a steak dinner that if personal holiness, sin, and judgement were preached the way Jesus taught it every other week for 3 weeks in churches across America (to sort of balance out the concept of who God is), most of the churches and megachurches would be virtually empty that seventh week.

:saint:

 

Not always. A lot of churches are full of the dead and will run the preacher off.

In scripture some church members came against the preacher instead of leaving. That is one of the reasons for discipline in the church.

There are those in the church who will agree with the preacher and are doomed just like those James appeals to.

Mt. 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

 

I agree with much that is being said on this thread. Many churches have unregenerate sinners sitting in the pew with a false sense of eternal security. This, of course, is a result of compromise in the pulpit. We need true, Holy Ghost sent revival more than we can imagine. Our desire to fill the coffer with $$$ to support our buildings and programs unfortunately places a heavy burden on the preacher to tickle the ears of the congregation so as not to ruffle feathers and run off members.

Our pulpits must thunder once again with righteousness and our preaching must produce true converts. Then and only then will the sleeping giant :sleep:awaken to fulfil her potential. Our culture is increasingly sliding down the slippery slope of moral decline and for the last fifty years or so the church has demonstrated an embarrassing powerlessness to stop the slide!

Jesus declared that we are the salt of the earth and the light of the world, but if our churches are filled with unregenerate sinners we cannot expect them to be so. Therefore, the salt has lost its savour and the light is woefully hidden under a bushel. It's hard to expect a saltless church to be effective and relevant in engaging a culture that is hell bent. We've got a lot of work to do within our ranks while at the same time rising to defend the faith against the attacks of Satan and the ACLU.

And, that's my two cents! :thumbs:

 

When was the last time you wrote a Letter to the Editor? Spoke up at a town hall meeting? Protested abortion? Taken a stand against homosexuality? When was the last time you witnessed? When was the last time you visited a new member? Have you checked to see if there is a discipleship class at your church? Bible study, aside from "Sunday School"? What percentage of your church goes visiting in homes each week? Is there an outreach program for the folks down on "wino avenue"? How many reach out to the police officers who patrol your part of town? Have you considered a home-schooling approach for every kid in the church? Who looks after the shut-ins? Mows their lawns? How many visitors have you brought to services in the last year? Who do you drive to church? How many hospital patients have you visited in the last year? Is your Wednesday "prayer meeting" taken up with business and preaching and singing, or do you actually stand up to pray for 45 minutes? When the plumbing is leaking do you tell the pastor? Who should you tell? Do the deacons do anything inside and outside the building? Do you have the buses serviced and washed for $$$$, or do members do that themselves? As a percentage of income, how much did you contribute last year? When the church supper is over, do you exit without offering to help clean up? What's the church for? Yes, thunder from the pulpits. Worship and praise. Raise the roof with song. Weep at the altar. Pray without ceasing. But don't expect the other things to take care of themselves. Faith without corresponding action is lifeless.

 

Wow!! :thumbs:

I agree! We need to get busy!!

As I said before, sloth wont get us closer to Christ! We are His arms, His voice, His message to a dying world!

 

Basically, the church is full of apathy and complacency when it comes to doing the things that really please the Lord. It's not that we aren't busy... we just aren't busy doing the Master's most expedient business. I'm confident He will have some shocking statements to make when we stand before Him in judgment. We need to prioritize according to the interests of His heart and then adopt the Nike philosophy... to "Just do it!"