Would the founders have left God out of the Constitution...

I don't even understand why it says that all men were created equal...when they are not. We are created with different skills, talents, abilities, whatever. According to Calvinists, God hates many people. No, we are not equal. Not at all. If we were, there would not have been a little problem known as slavery.

 

Did you know that while a member of the Virginia Assembly in 1769 Jefferson made a strong but unsuccessful effort for the emancipation of the slaves? He was also the first to propose, in the Legislature of Virginia, the laws forbidding the importation of slaves.

While slavery was a terrible part of American history, we will never fully understand the issue in today's modern world. We have to understand that not everyone who owned slaves were evil slave owners who abused the slaves. Many, like Thomas Jonathan Jackson took good care of their slaves, even using slavery as an opportunity to evangelize and educate the slaves, knowing that if they didn't have them, they would not be free, but may end up with a slave owner who did abuse and mistreat them. One of the fist black Sunday Schools was started by General Jackson. Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." I'm not condoning slavery, just saying that we have to know the whole story before we pre-judge the "slave owners" of the past.

 

I hear ya JGrubbs...there probably were many good slave owners who protected their slaves, treated them well and evangelized. I am leaving that possibility open. There were many bad ones too though and I know you realize that.

 

James that mey be a good new topic. Are all equal?

 

I don'tsee anything about slavery in those vers james ch2

 

Yeah you want to start the new topic buckster?

 

No one doubts that Jefferson was a proponent of freedom of religion, as well as reason. He however was not involved in the Constitution, and that is the topic at hand. His vague references to a God in the D of I really don't fit either. We can discuss if slavery is a sin elsewhere. Let's keep to topic, we only have ten pages.

The framers of the Constitution knew that all men were sinners, that is part of the reason the established a rule by law, not a rule by the people. The knowingly, willingly, purposefully, and wisely chose not to include God in the Constitution in spite of that knowledge.

We could update this to a situation today. The EU is debating their constitution. Part of the debate is whether or not to include God in it. If they do, will that make the EU more godly than the US? Of course not.

Faith is a matter of the heart. If I had a choice to live in a truly born again Christian state I would not do so. I do not want my government or any other government legislating religion. When they do, man tends to put his faith in the State instead of in Him.

I truly, openly, honestly, and without reservation praise God for the wisdom and foresight of these men.

[ September 22, 2005, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

for me I said all I can. I just don't see the same wording with the knowledge of what has become of the morals of the nation.

respecting all the other opinions and appreciation of the conduct.

I bid you unity and peace brothers.

(unless you throw something out I jus gotta comment on)

 

I think you're confusing all being created equal, with all men being created the same. Big difference.

 

Yes, I see the difference. But I still don't see all men created equal. If Calvinism is true, then God created certain men to love and to give eternal life to...and others to hate and condemn. That's far from equal.

 

All men are created equal is not in the Constitutuion, the topic of this thread.

 

Are threads ever allowed to veer off course...kinda like discussions tend to do?

 

Each thread has a topic. We have a page limit so need to stay on the topic being discussed. If we do not have this policy there are some posters who will use every thread to ride their own hobby horses.

 

Understandable...as long as it is the page limit and not 'something else'.

 

we can always start a new topic.

 

I'll be glad to start the "Are all men created equal?" topic. Under which category should it go? I really don't think it goes here.

Let me hear from you. Since I'm new, I'm not sure where everything goes.

Tim

Edit: Oops, I see it's already done. Sorry.

 

There is a thread on that topic here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/18/3625.html?